UK Parliament / Open data

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Tuesday, 24 January 2012, in the House of Lords.
Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. Lords committee stage fifth day. Schedule 1 agreed to as amended. clauses 9 to 42 agreed to. Schedules 2 to 6 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

734 c927-42, 952-93, 1006-40 

Session

2010-12

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 109-EN also published.
Thursday, 3 November 2011
Bills
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2012-0176
Monday, 30 January 2012
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Legislative scrutiny: Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill. Human Rights Joint Select Committee twenty-second report with formal minutes and written evidence.
Tuesday, 13 December 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords
House of Commons
Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. Twenty-second report on: Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill - Government response. (Lords Minutes).
Monday, 19 December 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Show all related items (6)

Proceeding contributions

Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c1031 (Link to this contribution) In his closing remarks, perhaps my noble friend would like to reflect upon what the noble Baroness, ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1030 (Link to this contribution) Good. I have appeared there on a number of occasions too—not against the noble Lord, Lord Bach, I ha...

Show all contributions (215)
Lord Bach | 734 c1030 (Link to this contribution) More than visited, I have appeared there.
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1030 (Link to this contribution) The problem is that my noble friend the Minister has not explained why people are allowed recklessly...
Lord McNally | 734 c1030 (Link to this contribution) As I said, we are in confessional mood tonight. The Government are currently considering a related p...
Lord Bach | 734 c1030 (Link to this contribution) It is very good to have the noble Baroness, Lady Buscombe, joining the debate, but if that was the b...
Baroness Buscombe | 734 c1029-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was the shadow Minister on the Proceeds of Crime Bill. I have rather a good memory, and ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Lord protests too much. I was explaining to him the motivations of the previous Go...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c1029 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend goes down this course, which is an accusation that defence lawyers are simply...
Lord McNally | 734 c1029 (Link to this contribution) Nevertheless, the previous Government passed the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 which prevents restraine...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1033 (Link to this contribution) 111: Clause 21, page 17, line 15, after ““individual”” insert ““or person””
Lord Beecham | 734 c1033 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I regret to say that I do not find the Minister’s answer satisfactory. It is true that man...
Lord McNally | 734 c1033 (Link to this contribution) The answer I gave in our December debate was that we are looking at the points raised. We are in con...
Lord Wigley | 734 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister said that he would address the narrow parts of this amendment because of the ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1033 (Link to this contribution) Yes. As I said after that debate, we will continue to liaise with the disabled organisations to ensu...
Lord Wigley | 734 c1033 (Link to this contribution) If I understand it correctly, the Government are still looking at the representations being made in ...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1031 (Link to this contribution) 110: Clause 20, page 15, line 24, leave out ““, by telephone or by other prescribed means””
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1031 (Link to this contribution) I should hate to say who should be there in sackcloth and ashes, but clearly things went wrong and t...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1031 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is one of four amendments with which I hope to deal in pretty short order. It relates...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we return again to affluent criminals in a slightly different context. This amendment refe...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1025 (Link to this contribution) 109: Clause 20, page 15, line 8, at end insert— ““( ) For the purposes of subsection (1), ““financia...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1024-5 (Link to this contribution) I am most obliged to the Minister for that assurance. For future reference, it might be helpful in t...
Lord McNally | 734 c1024 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lord said, the amendment would omit subsection (3) from Clause 16. This provi...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1024 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment refers to Clause 16, which sets out the principles on which qualification f...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1025 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when we were dealing with the previous amendment concerning the voir dire, as it used to b...
Lord Bach | 734 c1022 (Link to this contribution) 103: Clause 14, page 10, line 8, at end insert— ““( ) individuals who are involved in investigations...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1024 (Link to this contribution) 108: Clause 16, page 12, line 20, leave out subsection (3)
Lord Bach | 734 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to withdraw the amendment. I am most grateful to the noble Lord for his persuasive explan...
Lord McNally | 734 c1023 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lord has said, Amendment 103 would allow the Lord Chancellor to provide speci...
Lord Bach | 734 c1022-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this concerns a very simple point, or rather a short one—I am not entirely clear whether i...
Lord Bach | 734 c1028 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. I am just asking the Minister not to make a mistake on this issue; he shou...
Baroness O'Cathain | 734 c1028 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could say to the Minister that all my life I have lived by the statement that a man or wom...
Lord Bach | 734 c1029 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, advised me not to be too modest. No, I was not responsible.
Lord McNally | 734 c1028-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at this late hour this debate is taking on a confessional nature. There has also been a li...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1026 (Link to this contribution) Solicitors. It is perfectly possible for a solicitor to apply to the court, as happens in civil case...
Lord Bach | 734 c1027-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I must say, having heard those two speeches, that I would not want to be the Minister toni...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c1026-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall start by making a few comments about my professional experience and then look at t...
Lord McNally | 734 c1019 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would hope to persuade the Opposition not even to support the principle of this amendmen...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1016-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment is in my name and those of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, and the ...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment addresses Clause 12, which considers the important issue of criminal legal ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. I was going to say that I thanked the noble Lord, Lord...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) 100: Clause 12, page 8, line 25, leave out from ““premises”” to end of line 14 on page 9
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee that I was not able to be here at the beginning of this debate. In the ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) Yes. If it did not, presumably we would bring forward primary legislation to correct it, but that is...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1019 (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, could I be perfectly clear about what he said at the start of his ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1020 (Link to this contribution) Yes. I have been one of the strongest supporters of post-legislative scrutiny, and I am just putting...
Lord McNally | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I may interrupt, this may ruin a few speeches but I think it will help if I say that th...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have never achieved such remarkable success with so few words. In those circumstances, I...
Lord McNally | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I assure the House that it was my noble friend’s eloquence that produced that result.
Lord Wigley | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) Can I be clear that the proposals that the Government are bringing forward—I have an amendment in th...
Lord Bach | 734 c1022 (Link to this contribution) Of course I agree with that. The only phrase that worries me slightly is Clause 12(2): "““The Direct...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 734 c1022 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 100 withdrawn. Amendments 101 to 102 not moved. ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) How unworthy! The test of that will be what we bring back on Report, but this is not a way of dodgin...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to interrupt my noble friend, but we are curtailing the debate and what he has said is ve...
Lord Bach | 734 c1021 (Link to this contribution) The Committee will be relived to hear that I will not be making the speech that I intended to make. ...
Lord Macdonald of River Glaven | 734 c1022 (Link to this contribution) How did the Minister know what I was going to say? He is quite right. I said this at Second Reading....
Lord Bach | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) The Government may not have done that analysis, but the Law Centres Federation and the CABs have. I ...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I know that my noble friend is trying to get into his speech but, en route, important issues come up...
Lord McNally | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) Throughout the passage of this Bill, assertions are made about what is going to disappear and the ni...
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I did not say that; with respect, the Minister should listen. I said that I did not know whether £20...
Lord McNally | 734 c1014-5 (Link to this contribution) Throughout the Bill, we have tried to restructure legal aid so as to deal with the most vulnerable i...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1015 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate and I accept all the critic...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1015-6 (Link to this contribution) No—but you will be by the time I have finished. In his reply my noble friend said that we must awai...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1016 (Link to this contribution) 99A: After Clause 11, insert the following new Clause— ““Report reviewing claims for clinical neglig...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1038 (Link to this contribution) Increasing general damages by 10 per cent does not compensate for the deduction of 25 per cent. It d...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c1037 (Link to this contribution) If this provision is activated, as the Minister told us that the Government intend it should be, wou...
Lord McNally | 734 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 111 relates to Clause 21, which provides a gateway for the disclosure of certain...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1035 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister has given a clear indication that the objectives of the amendment are likely ...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1035 (Link to this contribution) 112: Clause 22, page 17, line 31, leave out subsection (3)
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) I thought there was a printer’s error here: that is why I inserted ““not””. It is not a matter of pr...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) I will read what my noble friend said with great care. For 12 years, this power that he said was in ...
Lord Bach | 734 c1037 (Link to this contribution) It will be a different approach, as I understand it. Under the last Government, it was never put int...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1037 (Link to this contribution) The Minister expects us to be grateful for this activation of a pretty redundant provision. I cannot...
Lord Wigley | 734 c1039 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has referred to the fact that there could be some reduction in the number of supplier...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1039 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not in a position to say and I fear—perhaps I am wrong—that the Government are not in...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1038 (Link to this contribution) 113B: Clause 24, page 19, line 18, leave out paragraph (b)
Lord Beecham | 734 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we are now at the end of Part 2—sorry, I mean Part 1. The Chief Whip was ecstatic at the t...
Lord McNally | 734 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope to end the evening on a reassuring note. We recognise that by virtue of the specifi...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1040 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that certainly sounds extremely reassuring. I will read what the Minister has said with so...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c937-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will double-check on that. I would in no way wish to mislead, but on judicial review par...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 734 c939 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble and learned Lord completes his remarks, I asked him a couple of specific questions....
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c936-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have had an important debate. As the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said, it is no surprise th...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c941 (Link to this contribution) 74A: Schedule 1, page 132, line 2, leave out ““there are no grounds on which it can be argued”” 74...
Lord Avebury | 734 c939-41 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I must express deep gratitude to all those noble Lords who spoke in favour of this ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c941 (Link to this contribution) 77J: Schedule 1, page 133, line 21, after ““other”” insert ““vehicle or”” Amendment 77J agreed. Am...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c941 (Link to this contribution) 74D: Schedule 1, page 132, line 6, at beginning insert ““there are no grounds on which it can be arg...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c939 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord for omitting to address that. When writing I cannot be certain either ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c932-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the treatment of Gypsies and Travellers by states and other public agencies in the West ov...
Baroness Whitaker | 734 c930-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, has set out very clearly and powerfully the way this group o...
Earl of Listowel | 734 c931-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support Amendment 79, to which my name is added, and I declare my interest as a la...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 734 c928 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may encourage noble Lords to leave the Chamber peacefully so that we can hear my noble fri...
Lord Avebury | 734 c927 (Link to this contribution) 73: Schedule 1, page 131, line 44, leave out ““subject to sub-paragraph (10)””
Lord Avebury | 734 c928 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the small print in the paragraphs of Schedule 1, dealt with in this group of amendments, w...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 734 c934-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find myself in total agreement with everything that has been said so far by all noble Lo...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 734 c934 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the case that has been made so well by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, and my nobl...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 734 c933-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, want to add my voice briefly in support of the amendments moved by the noble Lord,...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c942 (Link to this contribution) 79C: Schedule 1, page 136, line 14, at end insert— ““Definitions ( ) In this paragraph ““previous di...
Lord Bach | 734 c952 (Link to this contribution) 82: Schedule 1, page 136, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) all areas of employment law not otherwise co...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c941-2 (Link to this contribution) 78C: Schedule 1, page 134, line 28, after ““2003”” insert ““(““the 2003 Act””)”” 78D: Schedule 1, ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c942 (Link to this contribution) 79A: Schedule 1, page 136, line 9, at end insert ““or a previous discrimination enactment”” Amendme...
Lord Bach | 734 c952-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move Amendment 82, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Beecham. We come n...
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the answer for the not-for-profit agencies is that they can bid for contracts...
Lord McNally | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) I will have to promise to write to the noble and learned Lord.
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) If the work that they are doing is out of scope, how do they get a contract? I have obviously misund...
Lord McNally | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) They will not get a contract for work which is not within scope of the Bill. That is why we keep on ...
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister able to tell the Committee whether any analysis has been done to see which areas of ...
Lord McNally | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) They will bid for them. It is as simple as that. They are in a market where they will be able to bid...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1006 (Link to this contribution) 99: After Clause 11, insert the following new Clause— ““Funding (1) The Lord Chancellor may make fun...
Lord Beecham | 734 c993 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for confirming that changes will be made with respect to the regulat...
Baroness Mallalieu | 734 c1007 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment as far as it goes. We are all worried about who will fund organis...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c1007 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an extremely important amendment, which I hope that the Government will accept. Th...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1008 (Link to this contribution) Do I take it that the noble Lord is referring to £20 million a year rather than a one-off payment of...
Lord Shipley | 734 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford. It addresses a q...
Lord Shipley | 734 c1008-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Beecham. I do mean £20 million a year from the recurrent cost ...
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c1009-10 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in an earlier debate in today’s Committee I indicated my involvement in helping agencies t...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c1010-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have my name to this amendment. I confess that I have been impressed by the points made ...
Lord Bach | 734 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, until now, I have been happy to support every amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Thom...
Lord McNally | 734 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I am pondering whether to say, ““If the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, is playing into the Government’s ha...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c990 (Link to this contribution) No. When debating clinical negligence cases we agreed that they did not fall within Schedule 1. Howe...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c990 (Link to this contribution) My point is that a clinical negligence case, on what the noble and learned Lord said, as I understoo...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c990 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall certainly think about it. Clearly, if it falls within scope, it falls within scope...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c990 (Link to this contribution) I understood my noble and learned friend to say a moment ago that ““exceptional”” means no more than...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c991 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble and learned friend referred to guidance that would be given to the director in du...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c991 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, first, I indicated when replying to my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern t...
Lord Bach | 734 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, replies to the debate, I hint to the Minis...
Lord Beecham | 734 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the interests of life, liberty and the pursuit of nourishment, I will be uncharacterist...
Lord McNally | 734 c992-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would not dare to try to correct the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, on his English. I am stil...
Lord Beecham | 734 c991 (Link to this contribution) 93: Clause 10, page 7, line 23, leave out subsection (4)
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c987-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have to confess that I have not heard that news, although they are obviously tragic circ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c986 (Link to this contribution) I shall have my chance to reply later, but it is important that we focus on this. My noble and learn...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c985 (Link to this contribution) Having a definition which in these circumstances would be so broad—which I think the noble Lord is s...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c987 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for interrupting my noble and learned friend. He may be aware that a boy called Jake Har...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c986-7 (Link to this contribution) It may cut it down, but it leaves it still without any parameters, subject to ““exceptional””, where...
Lord Pannick | 734 c985 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in relation to Amendment 91, does the noble and learned Lord accept that Clause 9(3) as cu...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c984-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is important that we have moved on to Clause 9, covering exceptional funding, because t...
Lord Pannick | 734 c985 (Link to this contribution) It would be very difficult to challenge a director’s decision as to whether the interests of justice...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c985 (Link to this contribution) As ever the noble Lord puts a seductive argument, but there is a certain advantage in the director b...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 734 c989 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having listened to what we have heard in connection with these amendments, it occurs to me...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c989 (Link to this contribution) My noble and learned friend focuses on the word ““exceptional””. My understanding of the term ““exce...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c983 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is attached to Amendment 91. It is common ground across the Committee that the con...
Lord Pannick | 734 c983 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may add a few words on Amendment 91. The defect in Clause 9(3) is that it define...
Lord Bach | 734 c980-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important group and anything I say of course comes with the proviso that we too...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c979-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise with a sense of relief, now we have got through Schedule 1. The amendments grouped...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c979 (Link to this contribution) 91: Clause 9, page 6, line 16, after ““breach”” insert ““, or (c) that it is in the interests of jus...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c979 (Link to this contribution) 90B: Schedule 1, page 140, line 11, leave out ““the preceding paragraphs”” and insert ““any other pa...
Lord Bach | 734 c979 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble and learned Lord for moving these amendments so succinctly and clearly. This side ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c978-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the government amendments in this group in the name of my noble friend Lord McNally are de...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c978 (Link to this contribution) 90ZA: Schedule 1, page 139, line 1, at beginning insert ““Advocacy in””
Lord Beecham | 734 c978 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful for—not to say surprised and delighted by—the noble and learned Lord’s gener...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 734 c983 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would like to support this group of amendments. I am sure that some tidying up is needed...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c973-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, thank my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford for tabling the amendment. It would ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c972-3 (Link to this contribution) I have learned so much today. I did not know that the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, had been at th...
Lord Beecham | 734 c975-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like the Minister, I learnt tort. In my case, it was at the feet of no less a person than ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c977 (Link to this contribution) I was a member of the Criminal Injury Compensation Board for seven or eight years and resigned when ...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c974-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not intend to go into the complexities of proof in a Scottish court; it has always se...
Lord Beecham | 734 c975 (Link to this contribution) 90: Schedule 1, page 137, line 38, leave out paragraph 16
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c977-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened carefully to the representations and arguments put forward. Amendment 90 w...
Lord Pannick | 734 c977 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are undoubtedly few examples of claims under the scheme that raise complex legal iss...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 734 c977 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was rather impressed by the case that was put to the House by the noble Lord, Lord Beech...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c967 (Link to this contribution) I am rather frightened that too many people are going to find themselves without any remedy. That is...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c967 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the effect of the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, would be to make civil ...
Lord Bach | 734 c968 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is making an important point, and he is justified in making it, but it is false. We hav...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c968-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for setting out that position. As he said, we will come to...
Lord Beecham | 734 c969-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friends Lord Howarth and Lord Clinton-Davis, my noble and learne...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c970 (Link to this contribution) 82ZD: Schedule 1, page 136, line 34, at end insert— ““Appeals where court or tribunal certifies comp...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c970-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the amendment deals with appeals where a court or tribunal certifies a complex point of la...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c971 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I too support the amendment. When my noble and learned friend responds to this debate, it ...
Lord Pannick | 734 c971-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support the amendment for all the reasons set out by the noble Lords, Lord Thomas ...
Baroness Mallalieu | 734 c972 (Link to this contribution) I also support the amendment. Who do the Government propose should prepare and conduct appeals that ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c963 (Link to this contribution) Take, for example, a person who feels aggrieved and is advised by a lawyer that he has no case or no...
Lord Bach | 734 c963 (Link to this contribution) As usual, my noble friend is right. The point is that many individuals who feel aggrieved, when they...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c962 (Link to this contribution) To pick up my noble friend Lord Thomas’s point, I do not think I ever suggested that tribunals were ...
Lord Bach | 734 c962-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in what I was going to describe ...
Lord Pannick | 734 c961 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down completely, I have a question arising out of his emphasis on legal aid...
Lord Goldsmith | 734 c967 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to underline and strongly support one point made by my noble friend Lord Beecham, a...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c965-6 (Link to this contribution) This is another important amendment and I would like to support my noble friend Lord Beecham, who ha...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 734 c966-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have some sympathy in this area. I also have a great deal of sympathy with what has been...
Lord Beecham | 734 c963 (Link to this contribution) 82ZB: Schedule 1, page 136, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) all areas of consumer law not otherwise co...
Lord Beecham | 734 c963-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this amendment speaks to the question of consumer law and seeks to restore it to the scope...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c959 (Link to this contribution) I think that I asked whether someone could come to my aid and give an answer to that question. Perha...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c959 (Link to this contribution) While the Minister awaits advice, will he tell us about the processes that led to the drafting of th...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c959 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord acknowledged, the question goes wider than this particular case. I remember dealin...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 734 c959-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, since this seems to be a harry-the-Minister moment and I need to make up for yesterday, ca...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c961 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is always possible to speculate on what might happen in one case or another. To take th...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 734 c961 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the concept that employment tribunals are a cosy chat between an employee and his boss in ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c960 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the lesson of this is to get an answer quickly so that you do not get other questions accu...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 734 c960 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one of the points that I made was that the Government were intending to change the nature ...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c960 (Link to this contribution) I accept that there is obviously a distinction between a tribunal and a more formal court setting. I...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 734 c960-1 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister, between now and Report, consider the experience of someone such as myself, who w...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c958 (Link to this contribution) There is a distinction between advice that is preparatory to a tribunal and advice in representation...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c958 (Link to this contribution) Many of the people we are talking about are inarticulate. In my view, they have to have some sort of...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c957-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, obviously, as the noble Lord, Lord Bach, said in his introduction, the purpose of the amen...
Lord Pannick | 734 c956 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support the amendment so persuasively moved by the noble Lord, Lord Bach. I do so ...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c958-9 (Link to this contribution) I put another question to the Minister, although I am very grateful for his answer to that one. He h...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 734 c958 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in many cases professional advice by representation is not actually available. I have alre...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c958 (Link to this contribution) Will merely advising people and preparation be enough? Is it not vital that those in this position s...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 734 c955-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. It must make practical sense to put employment cases back i...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 734 c955 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support my noble friend’s amendment. The Government have not got their act togethe...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 734 c954 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has put his finger on the spot. The issues we are discussing are of prime importance...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 734 c1028 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could ask the noble Lord not to be so modest.
Lord Beecham | 734 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in principle I welcome the notion of a review and some of the provisions that are effected...
Lord McNally | 734 c1014 (Link to this contribution) Of course they are going to lose work in the areas that are being taken out of scope. That is self-e...
Lord Beecham | 734 c1035 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Bill provides for regulations to enable the Lord Chancellor to require a person who qu...
Lord McNally | 734 c1036 (Link to this contribution) This had better be good. Amendments 112 and 113 would prevent anyone in receipt of civil legal aid b...
Lord Bach | 734 c935-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Committee owes a debt of gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, and my noble frien...
Baroness Whitaker | 734 c937 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that point, but perhaps I may refer back to his remarks about judi...
Lord Bach | 734 c973 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be very brief. We on the Front Bench support the amendment unreservedly. I will mak...
Lord McNally | 734 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, concerns about the proposal to establish the community legal advice helpline as the mandat...
Lord Pannick | 734 c935 (Link to this contribution) When the Minister comes to reply, will he clarify how these provisions will operate? Notwithstanding...
Lord Avebury | 734 c928-30 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to my noble friend. I was saying that it would have a catastrophic effect on the ...
Baroness Lister of Burtersett | 734 c935 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendments. I was a member of the National Equality Panel, and one of the mo...

Subjects

Disability
Disclosure of information
Compensation
Criminal proceedings
Appeals
Assets
Advocacy
Criminal injuries compensation
Legal profession
Employment
Finance
Fees and charges
Legal aid scheme
Eligibility
Injuries
Discrimination
Evictions
Local government
NHS
Negligence
Social security
Sentencing
Tribunals
Sexual offences
Telephone services
Travellers
Remand in custody
Police stations
Citizens' advice bureaux
Law centres

Legislation

Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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