UK Parliament / Open data

Health and Social Care Bill

Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bills on Thursday, 15 December 2011, in the House of Lords.
Health and Social Care Bill. Lords committee stage thirteenth day. Clauses 148 to 186 agreed to, with clauses 151, 153, 161, 170, 173, 175 amended. Schedule 14 agreed to as amended. Schedule 15 agreed to.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

733 c1447-518 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Health and Social Care Bill. In two volumes. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 92-EN also published.
Thursday, 8 September 2011
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Deposited Paper DEP2012-0008
Wednesday, 21 December 2011
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Deposited Paper DEP2012-0011
Friday, 30 December 2011
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Show all related items (6)
Constitution Select Committee (HL) eighteenth report on the Health and Social Care Bill.
Wednesday, 14 September 2011
Parliamentary committees
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Baroness Garden of Frognal | 733 c1447 (Link to this contribution) With due apologies to my noble friend, it is very difficult to hear her when people are leaving the ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1447-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lady Garden very much indeed for intervening. I would like to express the ap...

Show all contributions (126)
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1449-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have all been precipitated into this debate some 10 minutes earlier than we might have ...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 733 c1451 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have amendments in this group to which I shall speak briefly. The noble Baroness, Lady W...
Lord Mawhinney | 733 c1451-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like briefly to comment on the amendments proposed by my noble friend Lady Willia...
Lord Warner | 733 c1453-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will just raise a couple of points about Amendments 300 and 301, tabled by the noble Bar...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1452-3 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may respond briefly to the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Mawhinney. I apologise if...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1454 (Link to this contribution) I was looking puzzled only because I wondered what evidence there was for some kind of break in the ...
Baroness Murphy | 733 c1454-5 (Link to this contribution) Some kind of break in the system? I shall continue with my theme: it is crucial that we move all tru...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1447 (Link to this contribution) I begin with an apology on behalf of my noble friend Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames, who wants to ex...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1447 (Link to this contribution) 296: Clause 148, page 148, line 11, leave out subsection (2) and insert— ““(2) For paragraph 9(3) of...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1460 (Link to this contribution) 296A: Clause 148, page 148, line 34, at end insert— ““( ) After paragraph 10C of that Schedule inser...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1460-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I listened with interest to what the Minister had to say and I was surprised that he dismi...
Earl Howe | 733 c1461 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Baroness would like a fuller answer, I would be happy to give her one. I am glad to giv...
Lord Clement-Jones | 733 c1462 (Link to this contribution) It seems rather extreme and extraordinary to be plunged into the possibility of a vote on a matter s...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1460 (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw my amendment, with the simple comment that I thought the reply of the Minist...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 733 c1460 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Baroness would indicate what she wishes to do with Amendment 296, that would be helpful...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1460 (Link to this contribution) I apologise. I thought I had begun by saying that I would withdraw the amendment and then made some ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1464 (Link to this contribution) 297: Clause 149, page 149, line 20, after ““whole”” insert ““for the purposes of the National Health...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1462 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the problem with transparency and accountability is that the issues of confidentiality and...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1464-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 299A and 299AA. Before I do so, let me say just a word o...
Earl Howe | 733 c1457-8 (Link to this contribution) I understand that point. That is why we have built additional flexibility into the system. Although ...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1458 (Link to this contribution) In terms of discussions the noble Earl is having, are all the parties happy with the fact that if a ...
Earl Howe | 733 c1455-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an extremely valuable short debate on Part 4. I hope it will be helpful if I...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 733 c1457 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House, having regained my voice. The point I wanted to make was that there is a t...
Lord Warner | 733 c1455 (Link to this contribution) I totally support the idea of getting everybody into foundation trusts. I am questioning whether the...
Baroness Murphy | 733 c1455 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly agree the noble Lord’s final point.
Earl Howe | 733 c1459-60 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would not dream of putting my right honourable friend the Secretary of State’s nose out ...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 733 c1458-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, since my question to the Minister, before he rises, is in similar territory, I might as we...
Lord Mawhinney | 733 c1458 (Link to this contribution) I have been thinking about something that my noble friend the Minister said a moment ago. The amendm...
Earl Howe | 733 c1458 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that the emphasis that we are placing on continuation of services rather than re...
Baroness Wheeler | 733 c1488-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak briefly in favour of these amendments, which would make HealthWatch England ...
Baroness Emerton | 733 c1488 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is not under any of the amendments, but I want to say briefly how much I support w...
Baroness Cumberlege | 733 c1487-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Harris, is right that we have already had this debate much earlier in...
Baroness Pitkeathley | 733 c1486-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my contribution in support of the amendments is simple and brief: it is to ask that the Mi...
Baroness Jolly | 733 c1484-6 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment 311ZA, which is in the name of my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones, whic...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1482-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we have already debated to some extent the way in which HealthWatch England might operate....
Lord Warner | 733 c1480 (Link to this contribution) 306: Clause 178, page 175, line 17, leave out subsections (2) and (3) and insert— ““(2) Healthwatch ...
Earl Howe | 733 c1479-80 (Link to this contribution) 304CA: Schedule 14, page 388, line 10, at end insert ““, and ( ) in subsection (3), omit paragraph (...
Earl Howe | 733 c1478-9 (Link to this contribution) 304BA: Clause 173, page 168, line 8, leave out ““(7)(d)”” and insert ““(7)(c) and (d)”” Amendment 3...
Earl Howe | 733 c1478 (Link to this contribution) 303ZZA: Clause 170, page 163, line 34, leave out ““(but not the following ““or””)”” Amendment 303ZZ...
Earl Howe | 733 c1479 (Link to this contribution) 304BB: Clause 175, page 173, line 5, leave out ““65K”” and insert ““65KC”” 304BC: Clause 175, page...
Earl Howe | 733 c1477 (Link to this contribution) 298C: Clause 153, page 152, line 38, at end insert— ““( ) In paragraph 22(1) of Schedule 7, omit par...
Earl Howe | 733 c1477 (Link to this contribution) 298B: Clause 151, page 151, line 6, at end insert— ““( ) In sub-paragraph (3) of that paragraph, in ...
Earl Howe | 733 c1477-8 (Link to this contribution) 299AZA: Clause 161, page 159, line 16, at end insert— ““( ) After subsection (3) of that section ins...
Earl Howe | 733 c1477 (Link to this contribution) 299ZA: Clause 161, page 159, line 12, at end insert— ““(2A) An NHS foundation trust does not fulfil ...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the two parties of government are in discussion with each other about these matters. ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am perfectly certain that the noble Baroness will contribute even more to this esoteric ...
Earl Howe | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Baroness wishes that, it would be my pleasure to accede to her request.
Lord Clement-Jones | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I want to add one further point about ““prospectivity””, if there is such a word, and governors and/...
Earl Howe | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very happy to consider all these issues in the context of the discussion that my nobl...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to withdraw the amendment, but I would like the Minister to consider very carefully the w...
Lord Clement-Jones | 733 c1475-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall intervene briefly before my noble friend Lady Williams sums up on her amendment. W...
Earl Howe | 733 c1472-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Baroness is calling for evidence beyond the testimony of numerous NHS trusts,...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1472 (Link to this contribution) I have a question for the noble Earl on this. He is absolutely right that the Royal Marsden is a ver...
Earl Howe | 733 c1475 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that the board of directors is best placed to decide how much private income overa...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1475 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister thinks that the safeguards are here, and if all that is true, should the governors b...
Earl Howe | 733 c1473-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it will be open to governors to seek information from the boards of directors on the plans...
Lord Clement-Jones | 733 c1473 (Link to this contribution) I understand the safeguard aspect there, but what will the members of the trust or the general publi...
Baroness Noakes | 733 c1470-1 (Link to this contribution) More than 20 years ago, I was director of finance of the NHS, on secondment from my firm, as some of...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 733 c1470 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an interesting short debate because the whole business of the cap has impose...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1471 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have never known my noble friend to show particular restraint about how he felt about hi...
Lord Warner | 733 c1471 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not going to speak in the debate and I certainly do not want to speak on the subject...
Earl Howe | 733 c1471-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important issue and one that I recognise is of considerable interest to the Com...
Lord Newton of Braintree | 733 c1466-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will come in very briefly. I declare a past interest as former chairman of the Royal Bro...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1468-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has put his finger exactly on the point here. I absolu...
Lord Clement-Jones | 733 c1467 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lady Williams very clearly set out the approach of these Benches to a numb...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 733 c1470 (Link to this contribution) I have listened closely to the noble Baroness. I should perhaps add that within these Benches we dis...
Baroness Murphy | 733 c1469 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I welcome the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, that her opposition to the Cl...
Baroness Cumberlege | 733 c1503 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, ought to speak next, because I suspect that his amend...
Lord Whitty | 733 c1503-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness very much. In this case, logic trumps chivalry. I have four am...
Baroness Massey of Darwen | 733 c1500 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for her words. I have some concerns, to which I shall come in a minut...
Lord Low of Dalston | 733 c1500-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 317AA and shall also speak to Amendment 317AB, 336B and 336C and ...
Lord Rix | 733 c1502-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 324, tabled in my name and those of my noble friends Lord Tenby...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1499 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, for flagging up this issue and for the work that ...
Lord Warner | 733 c1498-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name, too, is on the amendments. I support what my noble friend Lady Massey and the nob...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1500 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Baroness says. It is interesting that she said ““people of all ages””. The pur...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 733 c1499-500 (Link to this contribution) If we come back later with an amendment which specifies people of all ages—I accept what she said ab...
Baroness Thornton | 733 c1498 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Massey is, as usual, correct about these matters. I am always happy to take my ...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 733 c1497 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support these very important amendments. One only has to remember the tragedy of Baby P ...
Baroness Massey of Darwen | 733 c1496 (Link to this contribution) 310: Clause 178, page 176, line 10, after ““people”” insert ““, including children,””
Baroness Massey of Darwen | 733 c1496-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 311 and 320. This group of amendments seeks to ensure tha...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1495 (Link to this contribution) It is clearly important that the information goes back and forth between the local and national orga...
Lord Warner | 733 c1495-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been an interesting and spirited debate. I will certainly reflect on the Minister...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1495 (Link to this contribution) The Bill does not refer just to the annual report. It refers to all reports.
Baroness Northover | 733 c1494-5 (Link to this contribution) In the meeting that I was in yesterday with NALM this was an issue. The noble Lord, Lord Harris, is ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1494 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister indicate the timetable for consultation on the content of those regulations? Those ...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1492 (Link to this contribution) HealthWatch England will represent the voice of the patients. It will publish on that; it will advis...
Lord Warner | 733 c1492-3 (Link to this contribution) I just want to pursue the issue of the campaign, because it is very important. Currently, there has ...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1493 (Link to this contribution) As I said, HealthWatch England will need to look at what works well and what works not so well right...
Lord Warner | 733 c1493 (Link to this contribution) I am not talking about flagging up; I am talking about a campaign. A campaign means that you take ac...
Baroness Cumberlege | 733 c1493 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord, Lord Warner, agree that much depends on the membership of this body and whether...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1493-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lady Cumberlege for that and I agree with her very much. We all wish, and ha...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1494 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it could. If it felt that it was not managing to persuade the CQC or some other part ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1492 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness made a very important point just now. She said explicitly that HealthWatch Englan...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1492 (Link to this contribution) HealthWatch England has a statutory obligation to represent the position of patients and, if it is c...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1490 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that if you use a figure like £100 million, which was not the figure used by the noble Bar...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1490 (Link to this contribution) The organisation used up £100 million. There were criticisms from the local organisations that they ...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1490 (Link to this contribution) Bandying around figures—““it chewed up £100 million””—gives a completely misleading impression. Coul...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1490 (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the noble Lord talks to his noble friend Lady Pitkeathley about some of the details.
Lord Warner | 733 c1491 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be pleased that it will be the noble Lord who pulls his punches, as my noble frien...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1491 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may come on to the points that I was going to make regarding why we are making our proposa...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1490 (Link to this contribution) One of the failings of the commission was that it did not have a relationship with local public and ...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1491 (Link to this contribution) What the noble Lord has said bears out the point. This was a nationally established commission which...
Lord Warner | 733 c1492 (Link to this contribution) I am still struggling. I am sorry to keep interrupting the noble Baroness, but let me give her an ex...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1489-90 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been another excellent debate. We have returned to the topic of HealthWatch, whic...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1514 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for giving way. The problem with not ring-fencing funds and simply relyin...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1514-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Harris, made exactly this point at the meeting that we had the other day with m...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1515 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify whether she is seriously suggesting that rather than having a route going ...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1515-6 (Link to this contribution) I did not put that clearly enough. Local healthwatch organisations will be feeding into clinical com...
Baroness Wheeler | 733 c1512-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, noble Lords have spoken to their amendments effectively and comprehensively, so I will not...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 733 c1512 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall add just a few words. If we do not get this matter right, we, the Members of the H...
Baroness Cumberlege | 733 c1504-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have a number of amendments in this grouping concerning local healthwatch. As has alread...
Lord Harris of Haringey | 733 c1508-11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak to the seven amendments in my name in this group, Amendments 319, 321, 322, 3...
Viscount Tenby | 733 c1511-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, very briefly, I support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Rix. He has clea...
Lord Mawhinney | 733 c1505 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that my noble friend said that providers must satisfy the local healthwatch before...
Baroness Cumberlege | 733 c1505-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is no intention that this should be a further hurdle, but if commissioners are going...
Lord Low of Dalston | 733 c1500 (Link to this contribution) 317AA: Clause 178, page 177, line 4, leave out ““, so far as practicable,””
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 733 c1497-8 (Link to this contribution) I put my name to these amendments, which are incredibly important. I hope that the Government’s resp...
Baroness Northover | 733 c1513-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, again, we have had a very impressive and wide-ranging debate. It links in with the earlier...
Baroness Murphy | 733 c1454 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I echo many of the words of the noble Lord, Lord Warner, although I wish to put a slightly...
Lord Warner | 733 c1480-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, unfortunately the noble Lord, Lord Patel, had to leave before we could get to this amendme...
Baroness Pitkeathley | 733 c1494 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Baroness can take that a little further. For example, could HealthWatch, in the po...
Lord Low of Dalston | 733 c1517-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for the way in which she appeared to take the force of the points that...

Subjects

Complaints
Children
Accountability
Accountancy
Directors
Carers
Advocacy
Competition law
Health
Health services
Finance
Governing bodies
Income
Local government
NHS
Patients
Primary care trusts
NHS trusts
Mergers
Staff
Private patients
Standards
Reform
Monitor
Care Quality Commission
NHS Commissioning Board
Healthwatch England
Clinical commissioning groups

Legislation

Health and Social Care Bill 2010-12

Link

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