UK Parliament / Open data

European Union Bill

Debate on bills on Wednesday, 8 June 2011, in the House of Lords.
European Union Bill. Lords report stage first day. Clause 1 : Interpretation of Part 1. Amendments agreed. Clause 2: Treaties amending or replacing TEU or TFEU. Amendments disagreed. Clause 3: Amendment of TFEU under simplified revision procedure. Amendments agreed, with other amendments withdrawn or not moved.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

728 c275-325, c341-62, (corrigendum) 650 

Session

2010-12

Department

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Legislative stage

Report stage

Procedure

Government defeats

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

European Union Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 55-EN also published.
Wednesday, 9 March 2011
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c276-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to those noble Lords who have sought, through the tabling of these amendment...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c278 (Link to this contribution) On the first point, I will certainly endeavour to see that the words and wisdom of your Lordships’ H...

Show all contributions (109)
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c278 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, perhaps we could be just a little clearer. I thank him very much fo...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c278-9 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to the Minister and to the Government for listening with such deep concern to what see...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c279 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a final word I repeat that the definition will apply to any use of this wording elsewhe...
Lord Liddle | 728 c279 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would not go as far as the noble Baroness in describing this as a major concession in th...
Lord Liddle | 728 c279 (Link to this contribution) On that understanding, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment 1 withdrawn.
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 728 c279 (Link to this contribution) If Amendment 2 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 3. Amendment 2 Moved by
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) 2: Clause 1, page 2, line 4, leave out from ““Crown”” to end of line 6 and insert— ““(a) voting in f...
Lord Triesman | 728 c281 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I appreciate the tabling of these two amendments by the Government. I share the view of th...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) I hoped to intervene before the Minister sat down but I missed my cue. I shall be very brief. As the...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c280 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 7. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, will regard th...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c280 (Link to this contribution) 4: Clause 2, page 2, line 18, after ““treaty”” insert ““also””
Lord Williamson of Horton | 728 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 2, page 2, line 22, at end insert ““, and (d) the Electoral Commission have issued a certi...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c281 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall not detain the House very long. The question of the different relationships betwee...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c281 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister recommend to other European Union member states that have territories that are no...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c281 (Link to this contribution) If no one else wishes to intervene, I ought to answer the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Davie...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 728 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendment 5, and the similar Amendment 8 that is grouped with it, are both in my name. Alt...
Lord Howe of Aberavon | 728 c283-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can add very little to the lucid presentation made by my noble friend Lord Williamson. I...
Lord Tebbit | 728 c286 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord think that he envisaged a day when Parliament would be transferring sovereign po...
Lord Dykes | 728 c287-8 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to speak enthusiastically in support of this amendment and to thank the noble Lord, L...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c287 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that Burke was not thinking of the situation of the EU Bill which is before us. The noble ...
Lord Tomlinson | 728 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) When I heard the noble Lord, Lord Waddington, speak about nonsenses, that seemed to be a cue invitin...
Lord Waddington | 728 c284-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find the amendment rather strange. I certainly agree that a poor turnout may be taken as...
Lord Tebbit | 728 c286 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for lecturing me on conservative principles. Does he think that when...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c286 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, which is a...
Lord Richard | 728 c284 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak in partial support of this amendment. I cannot say I am very enthusiastic about pa...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c288 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I wish that the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, would not describe people who oppose his points of...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 728 c292-3 (Link to this contribution) I am indeed a member of the political class, but I think I see it perhaps with more objectivity than...
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 728 c292 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, seldom have I been made glummer than I have been made by the speech of the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Deben | 728 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) I am always worried when my noble friend intervenes upon me but I am very pleased on this occasion t...
Lord Deben | 728 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find myself in disagreement with both my noble friend Lord Lamont and the noble Lord beh...
Lord Flight | 728 c290 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I voted on two occasions for the Rooker amendment on AV. It is tempting to join the noble ...
Lord Risby | 728 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is worth pointing out that the referendum is now part of our political culture. Indeed,...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 728 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, as always, made a very careful and thoughtful speech whic...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 728 c294-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find that I am afflicted by the quite well known advice once given to me by the Whips. I...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c295 (Link to this contribution) In supporting this amendment, is my noble friend comfortable with the concept of a turnout of less t...
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean | 728 c295 (Link to this contribution) I am not advocating that at all. It would be a matter for the House of Commons to decide. The House ...
Lord Taverne | 728 c295-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I want to make three short points. First, I refer to the argument of the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c296-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may make a few remarks in support of this amendment. I find some of the argument...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c297 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, does he accept that the power of the Executive has got much stronge...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c297 (Link to this contribution) It is not the time of night to go into a lengthy disquisition on British constitutional history, but...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c297-9 (Link to this contribution) This amendment is not in fact about the absolute underpinnings of this Bill, although it is a very t...
Lord Triesman | 728 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) It has been a long debate and I suspect that there has been a very full review of most of the issues...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c300 (Link to this contribution) I was merely making the general point that 50 per cent-plus is our normal modus operandi. It is impo...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c302 (Link to this contribution) I will make the point of order whether there are interruptions from other parts of the House or not....
Lord Triesman | 728 c300-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the argument for 50 per cent plus has been widely canvassed recently among the people of t...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c301 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister gets up, I have a point of order.
Lord Liddle | 728 c310 (Link to this contribution) 5A: Clause 2, page 2, line 24, after ““that”” insert— ““(a) a referendum does not need to be held in...
Lord Liddle | 728 c310-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, after that great victory for Parliament—let us thank the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, for ...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c302-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, is correct, as I have got up, this debate now comes to a...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 728 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is traditional to say we have had a wide-ranging debate. On this occasion it is true. W...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c313 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment. It seems to me that it addresses an issue which desperately needs...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 728 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) I say to noble Lords opposite that we on the Liberal Democrat Benches recognise that this amendment ...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 728 c314 (Link to this contribution) I think I can see the point that the noble Lord is making. I wonder whether he is interested in hear...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c315 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the clause makes no reference to the Joint Committee advising the Government. The Joint Co...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 728 c315 (Link to this contribution) Since the noble Lord continues with the matter, I will detain the house for a moment. What is the po...
Lord Empey | 728 c315-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened carefully to this debate and there is one thing that we can say about ours...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c314 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has said that one of the reasons why she did not want to support the amendment wa...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c317 (Link to this contribution) That was not the story that I was told. If I had realised the massive implications for the transfer ...
Lord Empey | 728 c316 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and all the better for it. However, time has moved on and things have evolved from what we did ...
Baroness Quin | 728 c317 (Link to this contribution) When we joined the European Economic Community, we were already in the European free trade area. I a...
Lord Liddle | 728 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have to confess that I am staggered by the Minister’s reply. He misrepresents the positi...
Lord Triesman | 728 c341 (Link to this contribution) 6: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, after second ““condition”” insert ““, the urgency condition””
Lord Triesman | 728 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, given the debates that we had in Committee and the debate which we had shortly before the ...
Viscount Trenchard | 728 c342-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am afraid the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, has not persuaded me of the need to include an ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c343-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have read the amendment, which would restrict the operation of the Bill to matters of ur...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c344 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I need to make a rather nerdish point.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 728 c317-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is another reason to disagree with the amendment. Any Joint Committee composed of Me...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c318-22 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I begin by dissociating myself entirely from the statement of the noble Lord, Lord Liddle,...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c318 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I need to recant. In Committee, I was against the amendment on the grounds that it complic...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 728 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that this is what might be called the Rumsfeld amendment, because it has been move...
Lord Liddle | 728 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope not to detain the House long on this. In a sense, with this amendment we are trying...
Lord Liddle | 728 c352 (Link to this contribution) 9: Clause 3, page 3, line 4, leave out ““(1)(i) or (j)”” and insert ““(1)””
Lord Liddle | 728 c354 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Dykes, is so right. I actually congratulate the Government in many respects on ...
Lord Dykes | 728 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. Is not that point even more relevant when one t...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 728 c351 (Link to this contribution) What I was talking about was the transfer of great powers, which would be permanent; what the noble ...
Lord Triesman | 728 c351 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if I misunderstood the point, I of course apologise. I conclude my remarks by saying that...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c351 (Link to this contribution) 7: Clause 3, page 2, line 38, after ““decision”” insert ““also”” Amendment 7 agreed. Amendment 8 ...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 728 c352 (Link to this contribution) 8: Clause 3, page 2, line 42, at end insert ““, and (d) the Electoral Commission have issued a certi...
Lord Triesman | 728 c349-51 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, just to take any possible lingering tension out of the highly charged environment of this ...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c348-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Bill in no way excludes the European Union from being the appropriate body to respond....
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c348 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way. Is not the argument that he is adducing one that entirely exclu...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c348 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we all understand that events happen—although I believe that what Harold Macmillan said wa...
Lord Flight | 728 c347 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I suggest that what the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, has just said illustrates the very reason...
Lord Hannay of Chiswick | 728 c347 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if you do not mind me saying very briefly, I find the debate that we have been having sinc...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c346-7 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lords opposite will not be surprised to hear that I find it very difficult to accept this ...
Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 728 c345 (Link to this contribution) May I, with apologies, ask a nerdish question of the noble Lord? If I understand Article 48(7) corre...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c345-6 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that is what the treaty says, but yes, it is likely that that is the case. Of course,...
Lord Liddle | 728 c362 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will withdraw the amendment, but the Government are making a major mistake in not listen...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c361-2 (Link to this contribution) I think that we are arguing in a circle because the Bill provides the significance test and matters ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c361 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. With the greatest respect, this amendment is ab...
Lord Howell of Guildford | 728 c358-61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps it is for me to try to put this amendment back in its box, from which it seems to ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c357 (Link to this contribution) There is no illogicality at all. There is no need to provide for a referendum on something which is ...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c355 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am going to resist the great temptation to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Lamont. I do ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c355 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that the ECB is technically bankrupt?
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c356-7 (Link to this contribution) I am getting signals, quite rightly so, from my Front Bench so I really must not respond to the subs...
Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne | 728 c357 (Link to this contribution) Since the noble Lord has such confidence in the judgment of Ministers that he wishes to recentralise...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 728 c355 (Link to this contribution) I accept nothing of the kind—the ECB has a triple-A credit rating, as I am sure the noble Lord knows...
Lord Flight | 728 c356 (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord give even just a little bit of credibility to the argument that the problem of ...
Lord Liddle | 728 c276 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to move this amendment in a purely formal way. I anticipate that, in speaking to Am...
Lord Liddle | 728 c275 (Link to this contribution) 1: Clause 1, page 2, line 4, leave out ““supporting”” and insert ““permitting””
Baroness Brinton | 728 c293-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall speak specifically on the 40 per cent threshold and will start by reaffirming the ...
Lord Tebbit | 728 c291 (Link to this contribution) May I assume, therefore, that in defence of parliamentary sovereignty and all that of which he has b...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 728 c316-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Empey, because the purpose of the Bill is to give the people of th...
Baroness Falkner of Margravine | 728 c343 (Link to this contribution) I too oppose the amendment, although I recognise that in tabling it the opposition Benches are very ...
Lord Kerr of Kinlochard | 728 c344-5 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, will be very upset. I accuse myself of being nerdish, and I hope that...

Notes

In Division No. 2, Baroness Howarth of Breckland should be included in the list of those voting Content and Baroness Howe of Idlicote should be included in the list of those voting Not-Content.

Subjects

Crown dependencies
EU law
European communities
Gibraltar
Economic policy
France
Euro
Powers
Parliamentary scrutiny
Sovereignty
Treaties
Reform
Treaty on European Union
UK membership of EU
Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union
Spain

Legislation

European Union Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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