UK Parliament / Open data

Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 22 November 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Hanson of Flint. The answering member was Mark Hoban.
Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill. Report stage (Bill not amended in Public Bill Committee). Amendments to Clause 1 (Removal of Eligibility for Child Trust Fund), clause 2 (Repeal of Saving Gateway Accounts Act 2009) and clause 3 (Removal of Entitlement to Health in Pregnancy Grant) debated and negatived on division. Third reading debate agreed to on division (311 votes to 224), and Bill passed.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

519 c58-136 

Session

2010-12

Department

Treasury

Legislative stage

Third reading and Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 73-EN also published.
Wednesday, 15 September 2010
Bills
House of Commons
Saving Gateway Accounts Act 2009
Thursday, 2 July 2009
Public acts

Proceeding contributions

Mark Hoban | 519 c97 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady reads the comments of international organisations such as the OECD, the Internation...
Bill Esterson | 519 c96 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that although advice and budgeting are important, one problem in society i...

Show all contributions (146)
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; I agree with my hon. Friend. My point about the housing association movement is that the pe...
Mark Hoban | 519 c97 (Link to this contribution) The speech of the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) was remarkable. It appears that on...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c97 (Link to this contribution) Many economists share our view, including Joseph Stiglitz and David Blanchflower. It is not true to ...
John Hemming | 519 c94 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman ignores the fact that there was a sovereign debt crisis in Greece and that we nee...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) First, the selection of evidence we have heard from the Committee sittings is very limited, particul...
Stephen Williams | 519 c95 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is dismissive of the importance of advice, good numeracy education in schools and an u...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) I was not being dismissive of advice; I said that it is not enough in itself. To suggest that it can...
Bill Esterson | 519 c94 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman did not answer the question about why there was such a change of heart. When the ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c94 (Link to this contribution) Why not support amendment 13 to delay the abolition for three years and see whether the economy pick...
John Hemming | 519 c94 (Link to this contribution) If there were an amendment to say that we should delay it until it is instituted by order, I would f...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c93 (Link to this contribution) I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman could tell us why the Minister of State, Foreign and Commo...
John Hemming | 519 c94 (Link to this contribution) We need to find some way of reducing this country's borrowing. We do not want to end up like Ireland...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c93 (Link to this contribution) The Government are not leaving people entirely bereft of support, are they? Next spring, the new nat...
John Hemming | 519 c93 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The difference with this particular scheme was that it was to provide a way of matching fund...
Yvonne Fovargue | 519 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) I want to talk about the abolition of the saving gateway and the disappointment felt not only by the...
Bill Esterson | 519 c91 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman describes a lack of credit unions in certain parts of the country, which is preci...
Paul Maynard | 519 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) Unfortunately, the hon. Gentleman's point was not borne out by the evidence of Mark Lyonette of the ...
Sarah Newton | 519 c88 (Link to this contribution) There is another significant change since that time, which is the financial mess that we found we ha...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) There are two points about that. I do not wish to cause the hon. Lady any difficulty, but I think th...
Bill Esterson | 519 c89 (Link to this contribution) Is not the truth about the Government's position on the saving gateway that if they were serious abo...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. He emphasises that amendment 13 would not cost the Gove...
Sarah Newton | 519 c90 (Link to this contribution) I agree that the coalition definitely wants to enable people to make better financial decisions, and...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c90 (Link to this contribution) That is not what the pilots showed. They showed that there were new savings, engagements and increas...
Paul Maynard | 519 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this opportunity to express my views on the concept of saving gateways. I listened with in...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c88 (Link to this contribution) I am a realist—the Government have changed—but any realist would say that before the election the Co...
Cathy Jamieson | 519 c71 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the situation should not be an either/or? We should be able to gi...
Paul Maynard | 519 c71 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely, and I wish that during the evidence-taking in Committee and in the debate, we had ...
Paul Maynard | 519 c71 (Link to this contribution) I will give way, for the last time.
Kate Green | 519 c71 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He is right that if the junior ISA can offer that flexibility t...
Paul Maynard | 519 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. One of the joys of the Bill is that I have learned so m...
Yvonne Fovargue | 519 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) The child trust fund has a dual purpose—not only to give the young person a lump sum, but to nurture...
Paul Maynard | 519 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that effort to bring clarity. None the less, I regret the use o...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c77 (Link to this contribution) The point that I was trying to make is that the only incentive given in the junior ISA is that the p...
Mark Hoban | 519 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) set out in his opening remarks, the amendments in thi...
Mark Hoban | 519 c77 (Link to this contribution) The fundamental difference is that under the junior ISA there will be no contributions from the stat...
John Hemming | 519 c77 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) was slightly confused about whether peop...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady over-stresses that issue. She fails to see that the child trust fund was different fro...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c75 (Link to this contribution) It is correct that families have engaged in, and benefited from, the improved financial awareness th...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c75 (Link to this contribution) Let me offer these words to the House:"““Simply put the Child Trust fund started people saving for c...
Kate Green | 519 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak strongly in support of amendments 51 and 52, which my right hon. Friend the Member for...
Bill Esterson | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has talked about ISAs replacing the child trust fund as a way of saving for child...
Pete Wishart | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) Would not the people whom we are talking about need that money at 18 to pay for the Liberal Democrat...
John Hemming | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) The good news is that we are scrapping up-front tuition fees not just for full-time students but for...
Speaker | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) Order. We are going off the Bill.
John Hemming | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) The point is that spending £7 million to give £2 million is an appalling waste of money. Anyone who ...
John Hemming | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely, but it is also the state's responsibility to make sure that we do not spend £7 mil...
Nicholas Dakin | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman agrees that we should support looked-after children in some way, so ...
John Hemming | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) From a sedentary position, an hon. Member suggests that we ensure they have a job. That is true, but...
Cathy Jamieson | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the state has a special responsibility for children in care, irr...
Cathy Jamieson | 519 c69 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that that would also give young people themselves the opportunity to...
Paul Goggins | 519 c69 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. If a looked-after child aged 16 or 17, perhaps studying and...
John Hemming | 519 c67 (Link to this contribution) I cannot confirm precisely what is being done in the care system. I am not a Minister; I have never ...
Paul Goggins | 519 c67-9 (Link to this contribution) Let me begin by complimenting my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) and, indeed, all...
John Hemming | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) The Opposition's proposal to maintain the child trust fund and give £2 million to children would cos...
Cathy Jamieson | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that £5 million will still be used for children in care under the Go...
John Hemming | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) There is no reason why a junior ISA should be any less effective for the corporate parents. The issu...
Kate Green | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) Rather than this being about whether there will be more or less cost, is it not simply about whether...
Kate Green | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman confident that the junior ISA will be more cost-effective for the local author...
John Hemming | 519 c66 (Link to this contribution) At this point, I should declare my interest, which is on the Register of Members' Financial Interest...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c59-63 (Link to this contribution) The Bill was considered in Committee but it was not amended, despite the fact that we had some 19 Di...
Speaker | 519 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c58 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 1, page 1, line 1, leave out Clause 1.
John Hemming | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is entirely right. If we do not deal with the deficit, we face many other problems. We...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) Would we not be far better off doing what we are doing now and supporting growth in the economy so t...
John Hemming | 519 c63-5 (Link to this contribution) We are back where we were in the Public Bill Committee: the Opposition are going to fight on the bar...
John Hemming | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) That might be slightly out of order, but I should probably answer the question. There has been a deb...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c65 (Link to this contribution) In April, the leader of the Liberal Democrats said that big cuts would be extremely dangerous. Did t...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c80 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his response to the debate. It is self-evident that I am disappoin...
Paul Goggins | 519 c80 (Link to this contribution) In addition to the points made by the Minister, my right hon. Friend has raised a very serious issue...
Paul Goggins | 519 c79 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for clearly giving very serious consideration to the points that ...
Mark Hoban | 519 c79 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that we are consulting on the design of the junior ISA, and w...
Mark Hoban | 519 c77-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, the tax models for ISAs and pensions are different. With an ISA, the income and gains are ta...
Speaker | 519 c85 (Link to this contribution) Order. One conversation in the Chamber is quite enough at any one time, and the conversation we are ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c85 (Link to this contribution) We are in danger of repeating discussions that we had in Committee, but the Prime Minister has said ...
Speaker | 519 c85 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c85 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 2, page 2, line 9, leave out Clause 2.
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c81 (Link to this contribution) I know my right hon. Friend very well and I know that he will do that. In coming to a solution, will...
Dan Poulter | 519 c111 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point. Nevertheless, many women smoke during pregnancy and do not necessarily give up...
Mark Hoban | 519 c119-21 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. As we have discussed today, the Bill deals...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c111 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly suspicious about the extent to which the hon. Gentleman speaks with authority on what ...
Dan Poulter | 519 c111-2 (Link to this contribution) We are not talking about child benefit this evening. We are debating the pregnancy grant. On the pri...
Sarah Newton | 519 c112 (Link to this contribution) I endorse what my hon. Friend is saying. I took the time to read in Hansard the entire debate that t...
Dan Poulter | 519 c112 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for her point. On nutrition in pregnancy, we know from all the evidence that ...
Mark Hoban | 519 c112-4 (Link to this contribution) It has been a brief but thoughtful and thought-provoking debate. The amendments that the hon. Member...
Mary Glindon | 519 c114 (Link to this contribution) The Sure Start maternity grant is given only for the first child. If a family do not have that grant...
Mark Hoban | 519 c114-5 (Link to this contribution) That is an unfortunate consequence of the difficult decisions that we have to take to tackle the def...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c115 (Link to this contribution) In all our debates on the health in pregnancy grant on Second Reading, in Committee and today, we ha...
Kate Green | 519 c111 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman will agree that the majority of mothers are not substance misusers or a...
Kate Green | 519 c109-10 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not also accept that those women will at the same time suffer a loss of £190 that...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c110 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. I made the point at the start of my speech that unless ...
Margaret Curran | 519 c110 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Dan Poulter | 519 c110-1 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. The pregnancy grant would be much better directed if it was used to improve care at...
Mike Weatherley | 519 c110 (Link to this contribution) Given my hon. Friend's experience, does he agree that some of that money would be better targeted on...
Dan Poulter | 519 c110 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. He makes the point that I shall develop a little later. If ...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c109 (Link to this contribution) I support the abolition of the health in pregnancy grant, not least because £150 million a year coul...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c109 (Link to this contribution) On that basis, if the hon. Lady feels so strongly about it, why has she not advocated that the grant...
Fiona Bruce | 519 c109 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a valid point: we are continuing the Sure Start maternity grant and the healthy ...
Paul Maynard | 519 c107 (Link to this contribution) It is actually called the family nurse partnership, but I assume that we are talking about the same ...
Dan Poulter | 519 c107 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the difference with schemes such as the one in Bristol that he and th...
Paul Maynard | 519 c107 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely. That is a very fair point. It was never clear whether the Opposition believed in u...
Kate Green | 519 c107-9 (Link to this contribution) I am very sad that the Government have brought forward proposals to cancel the health in pregnancy g...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c105-6 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. I assumed that they had all been grouped together. Let me make a general ...
Paul Maynard | 519 c106 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to speak about the health in pregnancy g...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c106-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned the family intervention project and he is right that it does some valua...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c103-5 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry for not notifying you in advance, Mr Deputy Speaker, that my right hon. Friend the Member...
Speaker | 519 c105 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I suggest that we stick to the amendments that are selected for discussion now? Amendment...
Kerry McCarthy | 519 c103 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment 3, page 2, line 22 leave out Clause 3.
Speaker | 519 c103 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c98-9 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed by the Minister's response, but that is the nature of the role that I currently fu...
Speaker | 519 c102 (Link to this contribution) I call Mr David Hanson to move the next amendment.
Mark Hoban | 519 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) Let me make some progress and explain why we are repealing the Saving Gateway Accounts Act 2009. The...
Anas Sarwar | 519 c131 (Link to this contribution) It is amazing to listen to the hon. Gentleman—the people of Bristol West voted for a Liberal and end...
Stephen Williams | 519 c132 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but let me tell him that the people of Bristol West...
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick | 519 c130-1 (Link to this contribution) Representing, as I do, a constituency in Northern Ireland where there is considerable dependency on ...
Stephen Williams | 519 c131 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be brief so that the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) can get in. T...
Kate Green | 519 c132-3 (Link to this contribution) In the short time remaining I will address one or two of the points that were raised in the last par...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c127 (Link to this contribution) There are, indeed, choices to be made: there is a choice about the kind of society we want to live i...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c127 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to take an intervention just now. I recall that three years ago, at the beginning of...
Dan Poulter | 519 c129 (Link to this contribution) On that note, does my hon. Friend agree that it is a great pity that it has taken the advent of the ...
Sarah Newton | 519 c129 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me to speak in the last moments of the debate. It was an e...
Sarah Newton | 519 c129-30 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to agree with my hon. Friend. It is essential that we use the evidence base, and I fi...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c127-8 (Link to this contribution) I was thinking about the public debates on television involving the Chancellor and the would-be Chan...
Sheila Gilmore | 519 c128-9 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman looks at all the evidence and the research, he will find that it is clear that...
Paul Maynard | 519 c128 (Link to this contribution) How does the hon. Lady respond to the point that there were no willing providers of the saving gatew...
Fiona O'Donnell | 519 c121 (Link to this contribution) Following that logic, does the Minister believe that because there is no guarantee about where housi...
Mark Hoban | 519 c121-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has not participated in the debate today, but we have thought carefully about how to p...
John Hemming | 519 c126-7 (Link to this contribution) Well—[Interruption.] Sorry? [Interruption.] Yes, that is a good one. The tax threshold is a good exa...
Kate Green | 519 c126 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman give me one single instance of where the incomes of the poorest are being inc...
John Hemming | 519 c126 (Link to this contribution) What we are talking about is putting some money in a fund and leaving it there for 18 years. That is...
Pete Wishart | 519 c126 (Link to this contribution) If I had closed my eyes, I would have thought this was the hardest right-wing Thatcherite speech I h...
John Hemming | 519 c125-6 (Link to this contribution) Let me ask a question. If the Labour party will not cut these three things, what will it cut? They a...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c125 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments. The Minister and the Conservative party—and let us not ...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c122-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his opening remarks on Third Reading. He and I have got to know each other,...
Speaker | 519 c102 (Link to this contribution) Sorry. I call Kerry McCarthy.
John Hemming | 519 c93 (Link to this contribution) The Government have to look at what can be done when resources are limited. It is generally accepted...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c86-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Madam Deputy Speaker. This debate is about how we help poorer people in society and s...
Paul Maynard | 519 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to pass comment on the Opposition's continued attempts to retain c...
Lord Hanson of Flint | 519 c70 (Link to this contribution) There are two points about those discussions in Committee about which the hon. Gentleman is aware. F...
Mark Hoban | 519 c77 (Link to this contribution) I am happy for the hon. Lady to clarify it.
Dan Poulter | 519 c110 (Link to this contribution) We have heard a lot this evening about universal benefits and the need for targeting. I think that w...
Graeme Morrice | 519 c125 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my right hon. Friend that the Government's proposals are a direct attack on the poor. I...

Subjects

Disability
Children
Children in care
Child trust fund
Eligibility
Grants
Individual savings accounts
Pilot schemes
Personal savings
Low incomes
Northern Ireland
Poverty
Pregnancy
Scotland
Wales
Saving gateway

Legislation

Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill 2010-12

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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