UK Parliament / Open data

Superannuation Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 10 November 2010, in the House of Lords.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

722 c29-60GC

Session

2010-12

Department

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Superannuation Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory notes also published (HL Bill 22-EN)
Thursday, 14 October 2010
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I did not base my argument on the fact that there was comparability with the private secto...

Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 722 c52GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is clearly a justified probing amendment, but would not suitable to be in the Act. In...

Show all contributions (66)

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c47-8GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will obviously not pursue the proposition that Clause 2 do not stand part of the Bill bu...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c33-4GC (Link to this contribution) Could we just be clear on that point? If the Act receives Royal Assent and comes into force, I think...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c54GC (Link to this contribution) 9: Clause 3, page 4, line 9, at end insert— ““(2A) Section (Consultation in relation to civil servic...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c54-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment 11 only briefly since it generally goes over ground that we have covered ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c39GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord raises a good point. The problem with drafting one’s amendments and writing one’s spe...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c39-40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, rests his argument on this being a very big change that req...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for the assurance about a Statement being made to both Hou...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c40GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at this stage I should declare an interest, in that I have a family member who is about to...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c41-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to move Amendment 5 and also to speak to Amendment 6. The amendments are all part o...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c41GC (Link to this contribution) 5: Clause 2, page 2, line 23, leave out ““the following limitations”” and insert ““modifications pro...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Turner of Camden, has said twice this afternoon that the civil servants who...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c42GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has, as ever, made a passionate and powerful case for ensuring that people are treat...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution) There are, however, a substantial number of low-paid civil servants. I am rather surprised at the nu...

Lord Rosser | 722 c49GC (Link to this contribution) 8: Clause 3, page 4, line 9, leave out ““the day it is passed”” and insert ““a day fixed by the Secr...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c49GC (Link to this contribution) 7: Clause 3, page 4, line 9, at beginning insert ““Subject to subsection (2A),”” Amendment 7 agreed...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c52GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, which is admirable in every respect. At times of economic recession, the la...

Lord Rosser | 722 c49-52GC (Link to this contribution) I hope noble Lords will agree to me moving this amendment as it is not tabled in my name. My noble f...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the Minister. Clause 2 agreed. Clause 3 : Final Provisions Amendment 7 Cla...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I recognise the concerns which lie behind the amendment. Again, we have inherited from the...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c53GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is aware that, although the RDAs will disappear, some of the...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c53GC (Link to this contribution) Could the noble Lord cover—or write to me on—the issue of timing? The issue was raised because I ref...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c46GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I feel I should not reiterate the arguments that I have made already about the necessity o...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c44-6GC (Link to this contribution) Notwithstanding what the Minister has just said, I do not think that Clause 2 should stand part of t...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c44GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate, which has been very interesting. I still hav...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I used to teach international politics, not law, and this is the point where I should appropriately ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c48-9GC (Link to this contribution) We are in danger of getting a bit repetitive. Could the Minister say a little more about why the pri...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c48GC (Link to this contribution) Since the High Court judgment—since, indeed, one of the unions decided to take what had until then b...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c47GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, logic might suggest that all we need in this Bill is Clause 1. I understand that point, bu...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c46-7GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that he did not want to rehearse the arguments he put up before, but I would invit...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there were two questions which I will take. One was the question that was rightly raised—I...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c59-60GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for expanding on some of those points. Certainly, we do not ...

Baroness Drake | 722 c58GC (Link to this contribution) If I might concur with my noble friend Lord McKenzie, given a sunrise provision with a life of three...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c60GC (Link to this contribution) 16: In the Title, line 5, leave out from ““provision”” to end of line 7 and insert ““about the proce...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c56GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there are some further comments, and perhaps we can pick them up in relation to the next g...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c56GC (Link to this contribution) 12: Clause 3, page 4, line 17, leave out ““an”” and insert ““the most recent””

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c56-7GC (Link to this contribution) For the convenience of the Committee we will discuss together Amendments 12, 13, 14 and 15 which res...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c57-8GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister will understand that, as we do not like the caps and do not want them to continue in an...

Lord Rosser | 722 c53-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. Of course, I shall await the replies which he has undertaken ...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c54GC (Link to this contribution) 11: Clause 3, page 4, line 15, leave out paragraphs (b) and (c)

Lord Colwyn | 722 c55GC (Link to this contribution) If this amendment is agreed I would be unable to call Amendments 12 to 14 because of pre-emption.

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) Before I reply to this, perhaps I may say a little about changing patterns of employment which affec...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c30GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I had not seen this amendment when I drafted my own amendments to the Bill. Of course I pr...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c31-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I should start by responding to the request of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, to u...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c29-30GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is a straightforward amendment that I have some hope that the Government will feel ab...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c29GC (Link to this contribution) 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 1, at end insert— ““( ) Section 1 of the Superannuation Act 1972 is amende...

Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 722 c29GC (Link to this contribution) I have to make this announcement even though I cannot possibly imagine that there will be a Division...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c32-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that full explanation and update as to where matters rest. Around that, I a...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) The caps, as the noble Lord will be aware, are there in case litigation were to prevent the new sche...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) Can my noble friend explain what kind of litigation might be anticipated and therefore the need for ...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c33GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that helpful intervention. There were two questions there. First, our res...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has raised a very pertinent point but, in terms of the litigation—whatever the ou...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) Neither the previous Government nor this Government expected the challenge to the agreement presente...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) If it is the case that we are providing some kind of insurance policy against litigation that might ...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c34GC (Link to this contribution) The caps as they stand can be increased but not decreased under Clause 2. This is a fallback Bill th...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c35GC (Link to this contribution) We will reflect on this discussion before Report. In our subsequent amendments, we will want to unpi...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c35GC (Link to this contribution) I gave notice of my intention to oppose the question that Clause 1 stand part of the Bill because of...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c35GC (Link to this contribution) 2: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Consultation in relation to civil service comp...

Lord Wallace of Saltaire | 722 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to government Amendments 7, 9 and 16. All these amendments are intended as a reas...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c37GC (Link to this contribution) 3: After Clause 1, line 9, after ““report”” insert ““for Parliament’s approval””

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c37-8GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak to Amendments 3 and 4, and comment on government Amendments 2, 7, 9 and 16. I thank the...

Baroness Turner of Camden | 722 c38GC (Link to this contribution) I support both opposition amendments. When I first read the text of government amendment 2, I though...

Baroness Noakes | 722 c38GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, could give a precedent for a consultation report be...

Lord McKenzie of Luton | 722 c38-9GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is an interesting question. I am not sure that I could quote a precedent, but the fac...

Lord Newby | 722 c39GC (Link to this contribution) Following up on that point, if it is the noble Lord’s intention that Parliament should not unpick an...

Subjects

Conditions of employment

Compensation

Civil servants

Civil service

Redundancy pay

Public consultation

Redundancy

Reform

Trade unions

Sunset clauses

Legislation

Superannuation Bill 2010-12
Superannuation Act 1972

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk