UK Parliament / Open data

Political Parties and Elections Bill

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 6 May 2009, in the House of Lords.
Political Parties and Elections Bill. Lords Committee stage fourth day. Clauses 14 to 21 agreed to. New clauses (Amendments 122 and 123) debated and withdrawn. New clause (Amendment 125A) under consideration. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

710 c229-84GC 

Session

2008-09

Department

Ministry of Justice

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Political Parties and Elections Bill. Brought from the Commons. Explanatory Notes HL Bill 26-EN also published.
Tuesday, 3 March 2009
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Bates | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord clarify something? Effectively, his problem is that this matter was not debated....
Lord Tyler | 710 c252GC (Link to this contribution) No.

Show all contributions (111)
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c274GC (Link to this contribution) I have a question before the noble Lord responds to the debate. The Minister mentioned that the inte...
Lord Bach | 710 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I have to interrupt the noble Lord. The Chair has invited me to interrupt him and I must do so becau...
Lord Bach | 710 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I must confirm that we have not dealt with it entirely; that is true. But I make again the point tha...
Lord Bates | 710 c236-7GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Lord says in defence. That leads me to my second point about the problem, whic...
Lord Rennard | 710 c229GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 14: Limitation of pre-candidacy election expenses for certain general elections Debate on wh...
Lord Bach | 710 c240GC (Link to this contribution) That was from Commons Report; I can give my noble friend the date in due course.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c238GC (Link to this contribution) That is one of the nonsense arguments that I have heard against triggering over a number of years. T...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) I do not remember that when I was a candidate in Workington we targeted with vast sums of money on t...
Lord Bates | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) I am not arguing that; I am simply stating the facts. I shall come to the argument in a minute. The ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord seems to be saying that the trade unions should give the Labour Party more money. He ...
Lord Bates | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) That is the point that I am making. There needs to be some additional support, which many parties re...
Lord Greaves | 710 c235-6GC (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely true. I should also report that in the case of Pendle—I must be careful what I sa...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c235GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the noble Lord will confirm that, when it is suggested that that is being done in res...
Lord Bates | 710 c236GC (Link to this contribution) In considering this, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, that some of us have been involved in by...
Lord Greaves | 710 c234-5GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for missing the first part of this debate, but I understand very well what the noble Lor...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c232-4GC (Link to this contribution) I spoke on this issue briefly yesterday. I am undecided about what is in the legislation. I am not c...
Lord Bates | 710 c255GC (Link to this contribution) We have taken a position on this clause in that it has been debated and decided on in the other plac...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c254GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord feels that that is the case, does he not think that sometimes a Member of Parliame...
Lord Greaves | 710 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) I might consider it as a matter of principle if I thought that it was practical. As I have said, if ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c253GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord think that there are circumstances in which a Member of Parliament might feel re...
Lord Tyler | 710 c258-9GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is always helpful. It is 137 years. I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord,...
Lord Tyler | 710 c259-60GC (Link to this contribution) I endorse that, which is why if Members, their families, parliamentary candidates or anyone at any l...
Lord Tyler | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) They expressed a view. I do not want to sound patronising, but I am not quite sure for how long the ...
Lord Maclennan of Rogart | 710 c256-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak briefly, as powerful speeches have already been made on this issue. As someone who sto...
Lord Greaves | 710 c252-3GC (Link to this contribution) I disagree completely with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, and I find myself aligning myself ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c250-1GC (Link to this contribution) At one stage during the course of this Bill there was a consensus—in the Division lobbies when the J...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c251GC (Link to this contribution) I accept everything that the noble Lord has said and the serious nature of the allegations and point...
Lord Henley | 710 c249GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene to make a brief point. The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, speaks from the Liberal Democrat Benc...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c275GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment is prompted by a particular electoral circumstance. It is not intended as an aspersion...
Lord Bates | 710 c271-2GC (Link to this contribution) I add my support from the Front Bench on this side for the amendments tabled in the names of my nobl...
Lord Tyler | 710 c270GC (Link to this contribution) I was rudely interrupted, but nevertheless I shall be extremely brief. I said that I have less sympa...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c274-5GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister will not be surprised to hear that I was disappointed by his response. I am grateful to...
Lord Bach | 710 c276GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 125A 125A: After Clause 21, insert the following new Clause— "Voluntary provision of iden...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c275GC (Link to this contribution) Although Byzantine, I sought also to be brief. I am most grateful to the Minister for the brevity wi...
Lord Bach | 710 c276-7GC (Link to this contribution) I know that noble Lords will be aware that, during earlier debate on this Bill in another place, my ...
Lord Henley | 710 c278GC (Link to this contribution) As regards the point that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, has made, I said at Second Reading ...
Lord Bach | 710 c278GC (Link to this contribution) This House will debate this issue, certainly in Committee and, I suspect, on Report. Of course, the ...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) We have been going for two hours. In accordance with our new convention, I propose that we take a br...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to Amendment 125, which is grouped. As my noble friend said, the Representation of t...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c266GC (Link to this contribution) We are committed to taking steps to bolster registration rates wherever possible. The consultation w...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c264-5GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 122 introduces a new clause substituting a revised paragraph into Regulation 93(2) of the ...
Lord Rennard | 710 c243-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his last remark, in which he accepted that Clause 14 does not deal fundamen...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c243GC (Link to this contribution) As we come to a close on this, can my noble friend confirm that we have not dealt with the problem o...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c241GC (Link to this contribution) But this consensus is, I presume, arrived at between Mr Jack Straw and the opposition spokesmen in t...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c245GC (Link to this contribution) It was the absolute reverse. If the noble Lord had told me that that was the situation, I would have...
Lord Rennard | 710 c244-5GC (Link to this contribution) Under any of these proposed systems, what limit would have made any difference in the circumstances ...
Lord Bach | 710 c241GC (Link to this contribution) All that I can say is that we are looking for consensus in this field, having recognised that there ...
Lord Bates | 710 c238GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is very experienced. I do not mean to trespass on or demean her point. I was goin...
Lord Bach | 710 c239-40GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a fascinating debate. Who said that the House of Lords was not a political House? I am...
Lord Bates | 710 c238-9GC (Link to this contribution) But the noble Baroness knows that, if a leaflet goes out on a regular basis, with a picture on it of...
Lord Bates | 710 c238GC (Link to this contribution) I am saying that there is a candidate who is, yes, getting some resources to contest a system that i...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) Every month material such as that in front of me is being circulated in the constituency. Does the n...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c237GC (Link to this contribution) Let us take, for instance, a constituency where a Conservative Member of Parliament has £90,000 in a...
Lord Greaves | 710 c236GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not understand the huge difference in the short period when a parliamentary by-e...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 710 c229GC (Link to this contribution) There will probably be Divisions in the Chamber, so the Committee will adjourn as soon as the Divisi...
Lord Henley | 710 c255GC (Link to this contribution) The only reason why I brought up carpetbaggers was that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, described this a...
Lord Tyler | 710 c255GC (Link to this contribution) I have just two points. The first is that the clause was not debated in the other House; I think tha...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c259GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that it is not so much security in the mind of the Member, but security i...
Lord Bates | 710 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution) Well, my understanding is that this was certainly debated at Second Reading and at Third Reading. I ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c258GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a very full debate and I do not want to detain the Committee, but at the outset I must...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c249-50GC (Link to this contribution) My name is on the proposal to oppose Clause 17 standing part of the Bill. I accept that this is cont...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c251-2GC (Link to this contribution) I was coming to that, because there is a direct connection. I go almost all the way with Mr Lewis in...
Lord Rennard | 710 c249GC (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to detain the Committee for long, but I was the minder in the 1983 Penrith and The Bor...
Lord Henley | 710 c249GC (Link to this contribution) No doubt he was a candidate in South Africa as well—he was moving around. I just thought that the Co...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c275GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 19: Filling vacant European Parliament seats in Northern Ireland Amendment 125ZA 125ZA: Cla...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c272-4GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 123 makes amendments to the Representation of the People Act 1985 which sets out the time ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) On that very matter, my noble friend has talked about the vastness and scale of the change. Will he ...
Lord Henley | 710 c278-9GC (Link to this contribution) I will now intervene in the noble Lord’s speech because we are in Committee and the point I was goin...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c263GC (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with this amendment. I do not have any sympathy with the concept of ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) Since it was not anticipated that that vote would take place at all—it was not in the grouping under...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c268-9GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment has a simple objective: to extend from 15 to 20 years the period during which individu...
Lord Bates | 710 c266GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister seems not to have taken account of the arguments that might actually dissuade people fr...
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts | 710 c267GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 123 123: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— "Qualifying period for oversea...
Lord Bach | 710 c241-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have to say that strictly speaking it was approved at Report in another place and I have to go on ...
Lord Tyler | 710 c246-9GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 17: Candidate at parliamentary election may withhold home address from publication Debate on...
Lord Rennard | 710 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps. I should confess that my role in relation to quite a number of controversies was simply to ...
Lord Bach | 710 c240GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to comment on his state of mind at the time; I am trying to make the point that there...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c240GC (Link to this contribution) Is not the point that he made those comments after the abuse by the noble Lord, Lord Ashcroft, had b...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c240-1GC (Link to this contribution) But does my noble friend not accept that, under the new arrangements, it will be possible for someon...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 710 c238GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord said that he agreed with my comment about having a level playing field. Does he there...
Lord Marland | 710 c232GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we can allow this to go unresponded. First, on a point of order, I think that th...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c229-32GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may speak to my Amendment 121, which is in the next group, but this would get it out of th...
Lord Greaves | 710 c255GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Tyler was never a carpetbagger. I once voted for my noble friend Lord Tyler in ...
Lord Bates | 710 c255GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord would let me make a little progress. There will be a point at which he can co...
Lord Greaves | 710 c253-4GC (Link to this contribution) It might enter the consideration of any elected politician or, indeed, anyone seeking election. Yes,...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am not going to comment on procedural matters in the other place. Clause 17 removes the requiremen...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 710 c252GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry; I thought that it was Truro. Anyhow, let us say that the Member for Truro might live in ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 710 c271GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to have missed the noble Baroness, Lady Gould of Potternewton, who was sitting in her usu...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c274GC (Link to this contribution) As I mentioned earlier, Bills to do with election law come few and far between, so the Government ma...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c274GC (Link to this contribution) If we conclude that it is appropriate to change, we will obviously bring something forward at the ea...
Lord Bach | 710 c279-84GC (Link to this contribution) Let us see how the debate goes. Perhaps we can come to a view either later this evening, if the Comm...
Lord Bach | 710 c275GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the discussions that I have had with the noble Lord. If he would be good enough to...
Lord Rennard | 710 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. I have listened to the noble Lord, Lord Norton, speak on this subject before and I...
Lord Bates | 710 c264GC (Link to this contribution) Electoral officers concur with the view expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard. In a survey, 98 p...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c261-3GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak also to Amendment 124. The two amendments complement one another. It is logical to star...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c261GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 122 122: After Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— "Opting in to the edited elect...
Lord Bates | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) As a former Chief Whip, the noble Lord will recognise that there will be limited debate with Members...
Lord Tyler | 710 c260GC (Link to this contribution) Let me finish. All I am saying is that for this issue to go back to the House of Commons for the sor...
Lord Tyler | 710 c270GC (Link to this contribution) It is important to distinguish between these two amendments, although they are grouped together. I a...
Lord Norton of Louth | 710 c266-7GC (Link to this contribution) I might agree to do the latter, but I do not agree with the former observation. I am very grateful f...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c265-6GC (Link to this contribution) We are merely going through the orderly process of making legislation, which is our custom. We have ...
Lord Bates | 710 c265GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. In the last passage of his speech, which I have listen...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 710 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the Committee do now adjourn to a date and time to be notified.

Subjects

Data protection
Candidates
Campaigns
Finance
Elections
Electoral register
European Parliament
Northern Ireland
Political parties
Proof of identity
Overseas residence
Voting rights
Overseas workers

Legislation

Political Parties and Elections Bill 2007-08 to 2008-09

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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