Health Bill [HL]
About these Parliamentary proceedings
Reference
709 c35-98GCSession
2008-09Legislative stage
Committee stageChamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand CommitteeRelated items
Health Bill (HL). Explanatory Notes HL Bill 18-EN also published. (Lords Minutes).
Thursday, 15 January 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Thursday, 15 January 2009
Bills
House of Lords
Show all related items (6)
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c35GC (Link to this contribution)
Clause 32: Disclosure of information by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs
Amendment 123
123: Claus...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 709 c38-42GC (Link to this contribution)
I say with confidence that everyone on the Cross Benches would wish to be associated with the words ...
Show all contributions (108)
Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 709 c43GC (Link to this contribution)
I associate myself with the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, on the amendment, and I do so from the pers...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c46-7GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 126
126: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Admission of patients with sp...
Lord Rea | 709 c95GC (Link to this contribution)
I have a quote from the report, which sums up the problem in a nutshell. Page 105 states: ""We must ...
Lord Judd | 709 c88GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not question my noble friend’s good faith in telling us about the scope of the review, but can ...
Baroness Tonge | 709 c88GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for her reply, and everyone who has contributed to the debate and supported the...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c88GC (Link to this contribution)
We are taking that into consideration and in our consultations we will be taking recourse on abuses ...
Baroness Greengross | 709 c89GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 131
131: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Patient transport services
It...
Baroness Greengross | 709 c90GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that very full reply. I know that there is willingness to pilot such co-ope...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c90GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 131, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, would place a duty on primary care tru...
Lord Morris of Manchester | 709 c91GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 133
133: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Committee to advise on treatm...
Baroness Stern | 709 c83-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful for that intervention. However, I am quoting from evidence given to the Joint Committe...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c83GC (Link to this contribution)
I hesitate to interrupt, but that is absolutely not the case. I say that categorically as I have had...
Baroness Stern | 709 c83GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, support the amendment. I have been struck by the wide range of individuals and groups who ar...
Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 709 c82-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, support the amendment and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, for her excellent introducti...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c84GC (Link to this contribution)
I should like to ask a few questions about Amendment 132. As a member of the All-Party Parliamentary...
Baroness Campbell of Surbiton | 709 c93-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I welcome and support this excellent amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Morris. It is late, so...
Lord Morris of Manchester | 709 c91-3GC (Link to this contribution)
At last, completion of the Bill’s Committee stage is at hand. For one dread moment, such was the hea...
Lord Morris of Manchester | 709 c96-7GC (Link to this contribution)
This is not the moment to press the amendment, to which we can of course return on Report. No effort...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c96GC (Link to this contribution)
I regret enormously that we could not have at this stage of the Bill the full discussion that this r...
Baroness Barker | 709 c94-5GC (Link to this contribution)
At this late hour, it would not be right to go into the many issues raised in the Archer inquiry. It...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 709 c38GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 125
125: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Preferential organ donation
(...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c36-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, for her kind words; I will ensure that my noble friend rece...
Baroness Golding | 709 c42GC (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support this amendment. When the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, spoke to me about it, it re...
Lord Tebbit | 709 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution)
Briefly, I add my support to the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness. I do so from a position w...
Lord Tebbit | 709 c54-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not think we should forget how lucky we are to have had this amendment proposed by the noble Ba...
Baroness Greengross | 709 c54GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c57-8GC (Link to this contribution)
First, a debate like this shows the tremendous strength, expertise and personal experience in the Co...
Baroness Barker | 709 c57GC (Link to this contribution)
As my noble friend Lord Carlile has put his name to the amendment, perhaps I might make just one or ...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c58-60GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 126, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, would establish in statute a new national b...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c60-1GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank all Members of the Committee who have taken part in this debate for their support. I also th...
Lord Judd | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
So I am just speaking?
Lord Judd | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
Will the noble Baroness deal with two questions which occurred to me while she was in her usual styl...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
Because we are in Committee, the noble Lord does not need to interrupt the noble Baroness in the mid...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c64GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 128
128: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Income
Income from private he...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c64-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I emphasise at the outset that this is a probing amendment. The aim is to initiate a discussion and ...
Lord Palmer | 709 c64GC (Link to this contribution)
I look back to 2006 to Report stage on an earlier Bill, and it is interesting to be reminded of what...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c69GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord referred to the road that we might go down in future. The fact is that we are down th...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
No, you need to sit down.
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c73-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief. First, since I started working in the National Health Service in 1948 when it firs...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
Forgive me, but is this an intervention? I am still on my feet.
Baroness Meacher | 709 c78GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister and all Members of the Committee who have contributed to this discussion. In re...
Lord Judd | 709 c81-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I strongly endorse the amendment. In doing so, I am well aware that my noble friend is an extremely ...
Baroness Greengross | 709 c82GC (Link to this contribution)
The Equality and Human Rights Commission, of which I am proud to be a member, has an obligation to p...
Baroness Tonge | 709 c89GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Lord is absolutely right and I thank him for his intervention. I repeat that what is decid...
Lord Judd | 709 c88-9GC (Link to this contribution)
Does the noble Baroness agree that another issue that needs to be looked at when considering how far...
Baroness Greengross | 709 c89-90GC (Link to this contribution)
This is a non-clinical and very practical amendment. I shall be very brief, because there is one oth...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c85-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I will respond to Amendments 130 and 132 together, as they are clearly related.
First, I emphasise ...
Earl of Sandwich | 709 c84-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I will not detain the Committee much longer, because I, too, have heard similar evidence as a member...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c95GC (Link to this contribution)
I declare an interest as a vice-president of the Haemophilia Association. This seems to be a reasona...
Baroness Barker | 709 c35GC (Link to this contribution)
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, was kind enough to explain to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and me t...
Lord Geddes | 709 c35GC (Link to this contribution)
I am obliged, as those who are conversant with Grand Committees will know, to advise that, if there ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c38GC (Link to this contribution)
I am grateful to the Minister. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment 123 withdrawn.
Ame...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c38GC (Link to this contribution)
If I might, I shall write to the noble Earl and the noble Baroness with that precise information and...
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c38GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the Minister for that reply. There are just one or two other points that I was hoping the Mi...
Baroness Barker | 709 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall be brief. I wish to add my support for the amendment and to make one point about its wording...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c42GC (Link to this contribution)
As I expected, my noble friend Lady Finlay moved this amendment with her customary clarity and thoro...
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c44GC (Link to this contribution)
My noble friend has put his name to this amendment, and I am sure that he supports the noble Barones...
Baroness Wilkins | 709 c50-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I strongly support this amendment, to which I have added my name, and I shall be reinforcing much of...
Earl Howe | 709 c49GC (Link to this contribution)
I support the noble Baroness in her very well considered amendment. To my mind, there are three main...
Lord Palmer | 709 c54GC (Link to this contribution)
The Minister was just a wee lass aged six when my noble friend had her terrible accident. She has ma...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c52-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I give general support to the principles underlying the extremely important amendment. Having a nati...
Baroness Emerton | 709 c56-7GC (Link to this contribution)
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, for proposing the amendment. It is evident from what has be...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c66-8GC (Link to this contribution)
That is an extremely good question. Perhaps people coming from, say, the Middle East to Great Ormond...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c63-4GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall address Amendment 127, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Palmer. It is a long and well establis...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c62-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I know that I shall be unpopular with the Government for giving warm support to the amendment. When ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c70GC (Link to this contribution)
If it is all right, I shall give way in a minute. Normal National Health Service patients are seen a...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c69-70GC (Link to this contribution)
I understand that. We have gone so far down this road, but I do not want to go any further, which is...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
I beg to move.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not think that those hospitals that already have a 30 per cent cap will volunteer to reduce it,...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
I did not realise that the noble Lord was still talking. I beg his pardon.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c72-3GC (Link to this contribution)
I can understand why the noble Lord might not want me to carry on, but I do want to carry on and com...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not propose to spend too much time, except to say that I support the amendment, for a variety o...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c74GC (Link to this contribution)
The first thing that we must do is have further discussions with Ministers to determine the shape of...
Lord Judd | 709 c74GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the Minister winds up this discussion, it might be of interest for the Committee to know just...
Earl Howe | 709 c74-5GC (Link to this contribution)
I give my strong support to the spirit of the amendment. It seems to me that despite all that the no...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c76-8GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 128, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, seeks to remove the current private patie...
Lord Rea | 709 c84GC (Link to this contribution)
There is a large number of people in this country who are HIV infected but who do not know their HIV...
Baroness Barker | 709 c87GC (Link to this contribution)
Before my noble friend sums up the debate, I want to clarify the point about HIV. There is clearly a...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c87-8GC (Link to this contribution)
We provide counselling, but we ensure that urgent treatment is always provided and that the decision...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c95GC (Link to this contribution)
The Committee is supposed to finish in one minute.
Earl Howe | 709 c95GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall be very brief, as we are up against the clock. I hope that we will have a constructive reply...
Baroness Cumberlege | 709 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I should like to associate myself with those comments.
I shall speak to Amendments 123 and 124 in t...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 709 c46GC (Link to this contribution)
I am most grateful to the Minister for that optimistic reply and for answering the question "When?" ...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c44-6GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 125 seeks important changes to organ donation that aim to enable a person or the family of...
Lord Rea | 709 c43GC (Link to this contribution)
Extremely briefly, I support the spirit behind the amendment; the actual words we can deal with late...
Bishop of Ripon and Leeds | 709 c52GC (Link to this contribution)
I, too, associate myself with the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Masham. That is not simply o...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c47-8GC (Link to this contribution)
I must declare an interest in relation to this amendment, which is about spinal cord injuries.
I br...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c58GC (Link to this contribution)
I do not want to detain the Committee. I want to make a couple of points and, in particular, add my ...
Baroness Wilkins | 709 c61GC (Link to this contribution)
Before the noble Baroness withdraws the amendment, will the Minister clarify my understanding of her...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 709 c61GC (Link to this contribution)
After that helpful intervention, I say again that I will bring this back on Report. I beg leave to w...
Baroness Thornton | 709 c61GC (Link to this contribution)
No, we are not considering that at the moment.
Lord Palmer | 709 c61-2GC (Link to this contribution)
I am aware of the time. We have spent over an hour debating the important amendment proposed by my n...
Lord Palmer | 709 c61GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 127
127: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Tax relief on premiums for me...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c66GC (Link to this contribution)
On this mother and baby unit case, which I have looked at, in what circumstances would a person seek...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
I want to make the point that I made to the head of health in Unison. This initiative is not designe...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c69GC (Link to this contribution)
I thought we would all be rushing to our feet on this amendment because it is, in my view, the most ...
Lord Judd | 709 c68GC (Link to this contribution)
Well, I am very happy to sit down and now stand up again. Will the noble Baroness, who knows that I ...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c68-9GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall have a go at answering those questions. My own trust runs a very small mother and baby unit....
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
However, the noble Baroness did, if I recall, correctly quote some figures of between 5 per cent and...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
Exactly. In other words, the ones taking 5 per cent will want to get up to 30 per cent as soon as po...
Baroness Meacher | 709 c71GC (Link to this contribution)
Can we have a little bit of clarification? There is no suggestion here that everyone move up to 30 p...
Baroness Barker | 709 c75-6GC (Link to this contribution)
I wish to make only two very quick points at this stage. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, brou...
Baroness Tonge | 709 c79GC (Link to this contribution)
Amendment 130
130: After Clause 32, insert the following new Clause—
"Charges to overseas visitors
...
Baroness Tonge | 709 c79-81GC (Link to this contribution)
I shall speak also to Amendment 132. I have spent seven Committee sittings in this Room listening—ac...
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