UK Parliament / Open data

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill [HL]

Debate on bills on Monday, 21 January 2008, in the House of Lords.
Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill (HL). Lords report stage second day. Amendments 30, 33A and 108A negatived on divisions (162 votes to 121), (167 votes to 138) and (165 votes to 93). Part 1 of 2 records.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

698 c11-88 

Session

2007-08

Department

Department of Health

Legislative stage

Report stage

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords chamber

Related items

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill (HL). (Explanatory Note HL Bill 6-EN published).
Thursday, 8 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Geddes | 698 c88 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before putting the Question on Amendment No. 108, I remind noble Lords that if it is agree...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c88 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should inform noble Lords that dinner-time business has been postponed. We shall now mov...

Show all contributions (135)
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c84-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, let me say at the outset that the amendment and our proposals are not motivated by any att...
Baroness Deech | 698 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall respond briefly. I am motivated by the fact, of which I am pretty sure, that the p...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c86 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I believe I am right in thinking that I have to withdraw—or not withdraw—my amendments bef...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c86 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness is correct in seeking to test the opinion of the House at this stage.
Lord Geddes | 698 c86 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before putting the Question regarding Amendment No. 108A, I remind noble Lords that if it ...
Baroness Barker | 698 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, at this late stage I rise simply to make a few points which have not yet been made in the ...
Lord Patten | 698 c83-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I reflected as I listened to the speech by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Yor...
Lord Selsdon | 698 c84 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not intend to regale your Lordships with my study of the parenting of a range of mamm...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 698 c84 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise in the briefest of contributions to support the Government. In many debates we have...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 698 c41 (Link to this contribution) Yes, my Lords, I accept that. That is why I would like this to be given further consideration. Where...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 698 c41-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is difficult to overstate the crucial importance of this amendment for the future of me...
Baroness O'Cathain | 698 c42 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like some clarification. Proposed subsection (2) states: "““Condition A is that t...
Lord Patel | 698 c42 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, just for clarification, the noble Baroness is right. The seven conditions include no speci...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 698 c42-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Walton of Detchant, in reading out the letter than many of us have re...
Bishop of St Albans | 698 c43-4 (Link to this contribution) I have enormous sympathy with the proposition of the noble Lord, Lord Patel. I had the privilege of ...
Baroness Jay of Paddington | 698 c43 (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene because several points have been raised this afternoon about procedure at Re...
Lord Patel | 698 c44 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, am I allowed to answer that? The noble Lord is quite right. Subsection (2) states that the...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 698 c44 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if procedures allow it, I would like to ask the noble Lord, Lord Patel, to clarify the iss...
Lord Turnberg | 698 c44-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise to intervene very briefly and only because of my position as scientific adviser to ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will give a commitment to take this back to see if there is a way forward that is compat...
Lord Morris of Aberavon | 698 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, can I press my noble friend and ask that before the next stage we have a statement asserti...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c49 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will certainly do my utmost to comply with that.
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 698 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that I am procedurally in order to ask the noble Baroness before she sits down to ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the specific concern would relate to Article 8 of the Convention, which protects a person’...
Lord Patel | 698 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, a legal spanner has been thrown into my scientific argument, I do not know whether I can a...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c49 (Link to this contribution) I shall repeat the words of the Companion to ensure that I do not make any mistakes and I am seeking...
Baroness Jay of Paddington | 698 c49 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before we move on to the next amendment, perhaps I may ask my noble friend Lady Royall a q...
Lord Patel | 698 c49-51 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 76: 76: Schedule 3, page 64, line 46, at end insert— ““12A After paragraph 12 ...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 698 c46 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the letter in the Times suggests that the vast majority of the subject matter of this amen...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, Amendments Nos. 75 and 107 seek to permit the use of cell lines, a tool commonly used in r...
Lord Patel | 698 c45 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not know if I should answer this in winding up, but I will answer now. As I said when...
Lord Slynn of Hadley | 698 c45 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if that is right, could not the ethics committee, or some other similar body, be brought i...
Lord Slynn of Hadley | 698 c45 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have one brief point also about subsection (7). It provides that, "““it does not appear ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c47 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should point out that this is Report stage. Therefore, procedurally it is now for the no...
Viscount Bledisloe | 698 c47 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, so this is research that involves the creation of embryos.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c47 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as I understand it, we are talking about the use of tissue whose donors have said can be u...
Viscount Bledisloe | 698 c47 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, researchers have embarked on programmes of research on the basis that they have this tissu...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 698 c64-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the government amendment and oppose the other amendments. I applaud, of course, ...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 698 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have in mind the provisions dealing with family life, as the noble and learned Lord will...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 698 c65 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for giving way; I am very grateful. Which particular provision of t...
Lord Carlile of Berriew | 698 c66 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, my Lords—2008, but it would also have done in 2007. An awful lot has happened since 199...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank my noble and learned friend for permitting me to go before him. I should like to s...
Lord Sentamu | 698 c61-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as we are at Report, I will not repeat some of the things that I have said previously in t...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 698 c68 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have the misfortune to disagree with the noble and Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and the ...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c53 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall not go through the process of government, but I have listened carefully to the poi...
Lord Patel | 698 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am seriously disappointed with that argument. We are talking about children who suffer f...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, requirements for consent to the creation, keeping and use of embryos, and consent for trea...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 698 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Winston, referred some time ago to the work that I did in the course ...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c54-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 108: 108: Clause 14, page 9, line 12, leave out subsection (2) and insert— ““(...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 698 c54 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before I call Amendment No. 108, I must inform your Lordships that if it is carried, I sha...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c53-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 77 to 105: 77: Schedule 3, page 65, line 3, leave out ““inter-species embryo...
Lord Patel | 698 c53 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister. I hope that the Government will return to this amendment—even more s...
Baroness Deech | 698 c58-61 (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 108, Amendment No. 108A: 108A: Clause 14, line 4, leave ou...
Viscount Simon | 698 c61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I advise your Lordships that, if the amendment is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment No. 1...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will be very brief. I support government Amendment No. 108 and oppose the other amendmen...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, every successful human society has some sort of social structure in place and sanctions to...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 698 c81-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we know that a father has a special interest in his children. I proposed the clause that i...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c79 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have an amendment in this group and have waited patiently.
Lord Northbourne | 698 c79 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I degrouped my Amendment No. 111A so that we could have a good debate on it and I would ha...
Lord Tebbit | 698 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for interrupting him from a sedentary positio...
Lord Alli | 698 c77-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, like a moth to a flame, I rise to support the Government’s Amendment No. 108 and to set ou...
Lord Winston | 698 c75-6 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way, my Lords, I am afraid. I was very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Warn...
Lord Winston | 698 c74 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, my Lords; I have given way once already. I speak from a rather unique position. In moving the...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 698 c72-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my name is also associated with Amendment No. 110 and I strongly support what the noble Lo...
Lord Warner | 698 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I do not think we have heard from the Labour Benches. I am prepared to give way to my nobl...
Bishop of St Albans | 698 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this legislation is based on the promotion of equality and on a concept of non-discriminat...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 698 c68-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the government amendment. In doing so, I wish to address three issues. The firs...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 698 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, raised this in Committee. Bearing in mind what was said earlier, I will certainly ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 698 c16 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, who moved the amendment, referred to th...
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 698 c16 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I share some of the confusion about process expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin. I sh...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c18 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Earl pointed out earlier in his intervention, we believe that there should be...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 698 c18-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her reply to this amendment, but regret that I am not sa...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31: 31: Schedule 2, page 56, line 8, at end insert— ““(4) In sub-paragraph (1)...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 698 c17 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is worth pointing out that the amendment tabled by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Llo...
Lord Turnberg | 698 c17 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I can understand why the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick, has introduced the...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c17-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, for explaining in procedural ter...
Bishop of Winchester | 698 c18 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, would the noble Baroness like to provide us with a definition of the term ““future proof””...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 698 c23 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the amendment, which is very welcome in the light of our debate in Committee. At...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c23 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their broad support. We would be delighted to place a cop...
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 698 c22 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I raised this matter last November with the Government. At that time, as the noble Lord, L...
Earl Howe | 698 c22 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I intervene briefly to thank the noble Baroness for having considered this issue so carefu...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is with some regret that I oppose this amendment, because, having heard what noble Lord...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 698 c28 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as has been said, the Joint Committee recommended the change from ““life-threatening”” to ...
Lord Harries of Pentregarth | 698 c26 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much welcome the amendment in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Howe. Before coming ...
Lord Winston | 698 c26-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I feel rather happier with this amendment than I did with that of the noble and learned Lo...
Earl Howe | 698 c23-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 33A: 33A: Schedule 2, page 56, line 8, at end insert— ““(4) For the purposes o...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 698 c25-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I regret that, because of circumstances completely beyond my control—rain and trains—I was...
Baroness Masham of Ilton | 698 c28 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to add to the points raised by my noble friends behind me, about the quality...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 698 c29 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was not very happy with the expression ““quality of life””, for the reasons I have tried...
Lord Tebbit | 698 c29 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I agree profoundly with the noble and learned Lord. I was graciously accommodated at Stoke...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 698 c29 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, having spoken in favour of the earlier amendment which was rejected by the House, I am sli...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c29-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, was a member of the pre-scrutiny committee, and I support the position of the nobl...
Lord Elton | 698 c30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, perhaps I may make an arcane procedural point regarding the position if your Lordships are...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c30-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as we have heard, there is no definition of ““serious”” in the legislation. A definition w...
Earl Howe | 698 c31 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to Members of the House who have taken part in this debate and to the Minist...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, forgive me for interrupting the noble Earl, but I did give an assurance that we would be a...
Baroness Deech | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the Minister sits down, can she clarify the extent of the Government’s powers to pu...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I understand that we have given an undertaking in relation to counselling and information,...
Earl Ferrers | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that if something is in guidance it is just that—guidance—an...
Lord Slynn of Hadley | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, is it the Minister’s intention that the ““something”” should be nearer to what has been pr...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we would work the basis of the wording of the amendment tabled by the noble Earl. However,...
Lord Tordoff | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, really. If the noble Lord will forgive me, I would like to remind the House that this is R...
Lord Tebbit | 698 c33 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have no wish to change the rules of the House. It is perfectly within the rules for me t...
Earl Howe | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am again grateful to the Minister. The argument for having something in the Bill which m...
Lord Tebbit | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend. It occurs to me that—
Lord Alton of Liverpool | 698 c39-41 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, for the same reasons as the noble Lord, Lord Winston, I would like to say something about ...
Lord Winston | 698 c39 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment extremely strongly. It is important for the House to understand h...
Lord Winston | 698 c41 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, does the noble Lord accept that all the embryos that have been involved in research have b...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c36 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 49: 49: Clause 12, page 9, line 4, leave out ““inter-species embryos”” and ins...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c35-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 43: 43: Schedule 2, page 58, line 8, leave out ““inter-species embryos”” and i...
Lord Patel | 698 c37-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75: 75: Schedule 3, page 64, line 41, at end insert— ““Cases where consent not...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 50 to 74: 50: Schedule 3, page 59, line 9, leave out ““INTER-SPECIES EMBRYOS...
Earl Howe | 698 c33 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I find that intervention by my noble friend extremely helpful. It encapsulates what I was ...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c35 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 37 to 40: 37: Schedule 2, page 57, line 33, leave out ““inter-species embryo...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c35 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 35: 35: Schedule 2, page 57, line 12, leave out ““inter-species embryos”” and ...
Lord Patten | 698 c14 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, to anyone lying in a bed with a doctor leaning over them saying, ““You have a life-threate...
Earl Howe | 698 c14 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could briefly intervene as the noble and learned Lord referred to my amendments, which fol...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 698 c15 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble and learned friend mentioned my name, too. I have not changed my mind. The saving...
Lord Winston | 698 c14-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am reluctant to detain the House, but as my name has been mentioned perhaps it is approp...
Lord Darzi of Denham | 698 c11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report. Moved accordingly, and, ...
Baroness O'Cathain | 698 c13-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have added my signature to Amendment No. 30, which stands in the names of the noble and ...
Lord Lloyd of Berwick | 698 c11-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 30: 30: Schedule 2, page 55, line 30, after ““serious”” insert ““and potential...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c45 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I join my noble friend Lady Jay in urging my noble friends on the Front Bench that if they...
Baroness O'Cathain | 698 c63-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, in Amendment No. 108A, which I have co-signed, r...
Lord Patel | 698 c49 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that that should make life difficult enough for the Minister. I beg leave to withd...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 698 c32 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, guidance is guidance, yet the code to which the HFEA must adhere needs Secretary of State ...

Subjects

Disability
Children
Civil partnerships
Codes of practice
Diagnosis
Fertility
Homosexuality
Human rights
Human embryo experiments
Diseases
Donors
Genetics
Ethics
IVF
Discrimination
Fathers
Parents
Lone parents
Research
Stem cells
Human-animal hybrid embryos

Legislation

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill (HL) 2007-08

Link

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