UK Parliament / Open data

Local Transport Bill [HL]

Debate on bills and Committee proceeding on Monday, 17 December 2007, in the House of Lords.
Local Transport Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage third day. Clauses 54 to 118 agreed to, with clause 55 agreed to as amended. Schedules 4 to 7 agreed to. Bill reported with amendments. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

697 c203-60GC 

Session

2007-08

Department

Department for Transport

Legislative stage

Committee stage

Procedure

New clauses

Chamber / Committee

House of Lords Grand Committee

Related items

Local Transport Bill (HL). As amended in Grand Committee.
Monday, 17 December 2007
Bills
House of Lords
Local Transport Bill (HL). (Explanatory Notes HL Bill 1-EN published).
Wednesday, 7 November 2007
Bills
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Lord Berkeley | 697 c206GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what my noble friend says. Of course, they are completely different, but the effect on the pa...
Lord Snape | 697 c206GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that my noble friend will acknowledge the difference between railway franchising and the legi...

Show all contributions (111)
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c208GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, gave my noble friend an example in a sense. One of the operating comp...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c204GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 64B: 64B: Clause 55, page 50, line 5, at end insert— ““( ) Section 160 of the ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c238-40GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all Members of the Committee who have taken part in the debate. Under Section 169 o...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c233GC (Link to this contribution) That will be covered in the guidance. Obviously, I will reflect before Report stage on what has been...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c222-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, for bringing up those issues which authorities n...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c243-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 80D: 80D: Clause 100, page 76, line 23, at end insert— ““(2) After subsection ...
Earl Attlee | 697 c248-9GC (Link to this contribution) If I were in the Minister’s position, I would make exactly the same speech. She is quite right that ...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c218-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 71B: 71B: After Clause 65, insert the following new Clause— ““Mandatory travel...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c216GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 71A: 71A: Clause 64, page 55, line 19, at end insert— ““(12) The Public Transp...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c206GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that I missed a foretaste of this debate among Labour Party Members on this Committee the...
Lord Snape | 697 c209GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise again for returning to the amendment, but it is important. If we are talking about quali...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c231GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, as we need a good deal more clarity in this area. I was very grateful to th...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c232GC (Link to this contribution) In the debate on the previous group of amendments, the Minister referred to highway powers. Would it...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c230GC (Link to this contribution) There seems to be the potential for confusion, although I thank the Minister for his fuller explanat...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c229GC (Link to this contribution) I did not hear the Minister talk about the appointed members much. There was some concern that, what...
Lord Rosser | 697 c234GC (Link to this contribution) I would have thought that the ITA and the elected members from its constituent councils might be qui...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 697 c235-6GC (Link to this contribution) I query the effects of Clauses 97 and 98 as they stand in the Bill. Clause 97 abolishes the need for...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c233GC (Link to this contribution) Can we have some more clarity before Report about how the Government think the composition and funct...
Lord Rosser | 697 c233-4GC (Link to this contribution) To clarify, will that correspondence also include information on who will appoint those who are not ...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c223GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. I somehow think that we have to write provisions into everythin...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c221-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 71C: 71C: Clause 67, page 57, line 41, leave out ““and efficiency”” and insert...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c220GC (Link to this contribution) How does the noble Lord think that the Government might keep this issue under review? It seems to me...
Lord Rosser | 697 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 73 to 75A ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c227-9GC (Link to this contribution) As we have discussed previously, any order by the Secretary of State introducing changes to existing...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c226-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 78B: 78B: Clause 72, page 62, line 18, at end insert— ““( ) A change to consti...
Lord Rosser | 697 c226GC (Link to this contribution) I want to clarify that and the reference in Clause 70(1) to, "““any one or more … authorities””." C...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c224GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that answer. I am pleased with what he said. Obviously, guidance will be ve...
Lord Rosser | 697 c225GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 72: 72: Clause 70, page 60, line 26, leave out ““one”” and insert ““two”” The...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c251-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to join the noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, in this short debate to discuss the framework...
Lord Elis-Thomas | 697 c250-1GC (Link to this contribution) In speaking in favour of this clause remaining in the Bill, I declare an interest as the Assembly Me...
Lord Low of Dalston | 697 c254-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 82: 82: After Clause 110, insert the following new Clause— ““Charging schemes:...
Lord Glentoran | 697 c254GC (Link to this contribution) Certainly the drafting of the legislation in setting up the Welsh Assembly, and all that comes with ...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c258GC (Link to this contribution) I support the sentiments expressed by the noble Earl. I am not convinced that the issue he has raise...
Earl Attlee | 697 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 83: 83: Clause 112, page 85, leave out lines 43 and 44 The noble Earl said: T...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c244GC (Link to this contribution) We share the noble Lord’s concerns and interests and I am grateful for his explanation of the amendm...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c242GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding from reading various articles about the technical standards and interoperability co...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 697 c240-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. I accept that, in citing my objections to Clause 97, I was putti...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c248GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful for the noble Earl’s detailed explanation of the purpose of the amendment. I can ...
Lord Glentoran | 697 c249-50GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 109 should not be in the Bill because it is a tax-raising Bill, and noble Lords will know tha...
Earl Attlee | 697 c246-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 81A: 81A: After Clause 107, insert the following new Clause— ““London charging...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 697 c246GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his acceptance of my point, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Ame...
Lord Rosser | 697 c212GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 69A: 69A: Clause 64, page 53, line 41, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of S...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c212-3GC (Link to this contribution) I will speak to my amendment, grouped with the other two, while the noble Lord, Lord Low of Dalston,...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c213GC (Link to this contribution) I have one question. My noble friend Lord Bradshaw attempted to table an amendment which was refused...
Lord Rosser | 697 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 69: 69: After Clause 57, insert the following new Clause— ““Extension of grant...
Lord Low of Dalston | 697 c213GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for not arriving in time to move my Amendment No. 69A. I had indicated ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c213-6GC (Link to this contribution) This is a useful opportunity to discuss a range of issues which have a laudable aim, in particular t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for allowing us the opportunity again to discuss bus passenge...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c207-8GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Rosser has raised some interesting points and some interesting points have been...
Lord Snape | 697 c205-6GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that anyone could undermine the principle of quality contracts quite as well as my no...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c209GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify something about the comparison with the railways. The two franchises that have...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c203-4GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has made a very reasonable request. Having looked at Clause 54 again, it seems rathe...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c231-2GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment focuses on membership of an integrated transport authority. I understand the sensitiv...
Lord Rosser | 697 c230-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 79: 79: Clause 72, page 62, line 31, after ““councils”” insert ““from among th...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c233GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. I do not in any way wish to rerun the arguments that we had during ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c232GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the answer has to be ““yes””. I do not think that there can be a different status of me...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c230GC (Link to this contribution) We come to that issue in the next amendment, and I shall be happy to deal with it there. I know that...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c234GC (Link to this contribution) I thought I had made it plain at the outset that the issue is one of ensuring that we have flexibili...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c233GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the strength of view of the noble Baroness on this. As I was reading the note, I reflec...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c223GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to the Question whether Clause 71 should stand part of the Bill. The clauses will...
Earl of Listowel | 697 c221GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his careful and generally sympathetic response, in principle at le...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c219-20GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for moving the amendment. I do have a modicum of sym...
Lord Rosser | 697 c226GC (Link to this contribution) Why the distinction between Clause 68, which is about any two or more authorities, and Clauses 70 an...
Lord Low of Dalston | 697 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I accept that there is more flexibility to the Durham scheme than I was aware of. I repeat my hope t...
Lord Low of Dalston | 697 c256-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. The amendment has a point. For those for whom driving i...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c257GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment, in fairness to Durham I ought to put on the record th...
Lord Glentoran | 697 c253GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Elis-Thomas, for their contributions. I am not entirel...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c255-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Low, for his explanation of the purpose and thinking behi...
Earl Attlee | 697 c260GC (Link to this contribution) Obviously the term ““reasonable cause”” was meant to cover vehicle accidents. Indeed, that is almost...
Earl Attlee | 697 c260GC (Link to this contribution) It sounds as though this is fertile ground for further amendments. In the mean time, however, I beg ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c260GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, a parking enforcement company must make a specific request; it cannot make a bul...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I understand what the noble Lord is saying. He is right: we think that the EU Commission has an impo...
Earl Attlee | 697 c243GC (Link to this contribution) I may have to come back at a later stage with a more detailed amendment to tease out this issue of u...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c243GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I get the impression that he is looking forward to the European reg...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c242-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for his amendment. I have given this a little tho...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c245-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his explanation. The answer lies in an understanding of the Tran...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c209GC (Link to this contribution) We cannot ever have a complete failure in a public transport undertaking because the very nature of ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c210GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend is right in his interpretation of what I said; we believe that those powers in compu...
Lord Rosser | 697 c210GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 66 to 68 n...
Lord Rosser | 697 c211GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of what has been said, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, wit...
Lord Low of Dalston | 697 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for taking on board the spirit of both amendments and agreeing to gi...
Lord Rosser | 697 c216GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 69ZA and 7...
Lord Berkeley | 697 c218GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend for that comprehensive response. It is very difficult in the m...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c209GC (Link to this contribution) I do not accept my noble friend’s premise. Nor do I accept his premise that a quality contract would...
Lord Snape | 697 c208GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for detaining your Lordships for another couple of minutes on Amendment No. 66A, but I g...
Lord Rosser | 697 c203GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 64: 64: Clause 54, page 47, line 42, after ““operator”” insert ““, any Integra...
Lord Rosser | 697 c204GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of that, I am happy to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause...
Lord Rosser | 697 c204-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 65: 65: Clause 57, page 50, line 28, after ““subsidies,”” insert ““or where th...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c231GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, have some sympathy with the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, which covers ...
Earl Attlee | 697 c236-7GC (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, has just said. I want to make it absolutely clear why w...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 697 c237GC (Link to this contribution) Sometimes one has to feel sorry for the Government because they are damned if they do and damned if ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c220-1GC (Link to this contribution) Obviously, we keep policy under review at all times. We have discussions with local government over ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c224GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 69 provides a power for the Secretary of State to be able to direct two or more authorities t...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c219GC (Link to this contribution) We, too, have some sympathy for and empathy with the amendment, but do not know quite how it would w...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lord Rosser for his explanation of the amendment, which deals with those bod...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c226GC (Link to this contribution) Under Clause 68, we are talking about a new ITA with joint arrangements. Therefore, obviously, "““tw...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c253GC (Link to this contribution) I have one comment to make. The difference between framework powers in a Bill and the LCOs is that t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c258-60GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the noble Earl had the opportunity through this amendment to raise the issue in ...
Lord Hanningfield | 697 c244GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have further questions at the moment but I made a very valid point. I shall read the Minist...
Earl Attlee | 697 c241GC (Link to this contribution) I can see that there is a reason for road charges to be varied, depending on the means of recording,...
Earl Attlee | 697 c247GC (Link to this contribution) Of course, the problem is that the Shire horse that would be transported to the Lambeth Agricultural...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 697 c247GC (Link to this contribution) It is worth recording that my comrade Ken Livingstone was—and still is, as I understand it—a great s...
Lord Cameron of Dillington | 697 c245GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 81: 81: Clause 100, page 77, line 3, at end insert— ““( ) Section 173 of the a...
Lord Rosser | 697 c209-10GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that my noble friend is saying that he will look at the issue of operator of last resor...
Baroness Crawley | 697 c211GC (Link to this contribution) We are inclined to think that this is a somewhat curious amendment. Section 106 of the Transport Act...
Lord Rosser | 697 c219GC (Link to this contribution) Although this is clearly a probing amendment, I suppose one could think of all sorts of technical di...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 697 c219GC (Link to this contribution) It strikes me that the noble Earl’s amendment would have merit when a homeless family was actively e...

Subjects

Disability
Devolved matters
Bus services
Devolution
Concessions
Fares
Equality
Fees and charges
Exemptions
Legislative competence
Grants
Homelessness
Public transport
National Assembly for Wales
Pollution control
Passenger transport executives
Standards
Transport
Roads
Tolls
Traffic Commissioners
Carbon emissions

Legislation

Local Transport Bill (HL) 2007-08

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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