UK Parliament / Open data

Police and Justice Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 6 March 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Charles Clarke. The answering member was Lord Herbert of South Downs.
Police and Justice Bill. Second reading debate. Agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, on Report, Third Reading and any other proceedings agreed to on question (formal). Money resolution agreed to on question (formal).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

443 c608-94 

Session

2005-06

Department

Home Office

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions
Money resolutions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Police and Justice Bill. Explanatory Notes Bill 119-EN also published.
Wednesday, 25 January 2006
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Speaker | 443 c643 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman to relate his comments to the Bill that we are discussing.
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs. Moon) welcomed the fact that every speaker so far had genera...

Show all contributions (139)
Madeleine Moon | 443 c640-1 (Link to this contribution) I would endorse virtually everything the hon. Gentleman said, other than his remarks about Governmen...
Madeleine Moon | 443 c637-40 (Link to this contribution) I cannot comment on head counting, but I can comment on the effect on efficiency. I am more concerne...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c634 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to explain our policy outside this debate, which is about the Government’s proposals.
David Evennett | 443 c634 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. Lady with great interest. How would she take this matter forward in terms...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c634 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is it. Could the proposal allow one persistent, complaining constituent to divert resourc...
Mark Francois | 443 c634 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Lady has discussed the Liberal Democrat commitment to localism and local people. Will she...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c632-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; my hon. Friend is right. The previous Home Secretary signed the treaty in Washington. We put...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 443 c637 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady not a little concerned by the fact that recent experience has shown that coterminou...
John Denham | 443 c627-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome much of the Bill. I just want to make a few remarks that I hope are helpful about some of ...
Speaker | 443 c621 (Link to this contribution) I am always grateful for help from hon. Members. All I ask as guardian of the Standing Orders is tha...
Speaker | 443 c620 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) is about three minutes into his speech. S...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 443 c624-7 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary may know that we are consulting on a range of options to achieve local accountabi...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 443 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Government should take notice of local referendums, but they did not do that in relati...
David Leslie Taylor | 443 c628 (Link to this contribution) : My right hon. Friend mentions neighbourhood teams. Does he agree that one way of cementing and dev...
David Winnick | 443 c617 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland, ...
Paul Beresford | 443 c619 (Link to this contribution) One aspect of part 5 has my entire support. As the Home Secretary knows, there has been close co-ope...
Boris Johnson | 443 c619 (Link to this contribution) Does the Home Secretary agree that amendments on extradition would offer a good opportunity to clear...
Mark Francois | 443 c692 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for acknowledging the strength of feeling in the county of Essex. She ...
Hazel Blears | 443 c687-8 (Link to this contribution) I can assure my hon. Friend that I have had extensive discussions with the Local Government Associat...
Hazel Blears | 443 c692-3 (Link to this contribution) How can I possibly resist the blandishments of my hon. Friend? I can assure all Members that I take...
David Evennett | 443 c647-9 (Link to this contribution) Let us get back to the Bill. I should like to make a brief contribution, and I am pleased to be abl...
David Evennett | 443 c649 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not happy with the word ““taxing””, but we do not get any meat from th...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c653-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes two excellent points—namely, the issues of SOCA and federation. As I mentioned ...
Speaker | 443 c654 (Link to this contribution) Order. I need to offer the hon. Gentleman a cautionary word. There are ways in which, by reference t...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c654 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for your wise counsel, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as I was concluding on the first part of my...
Boris Johnson | 443 c645 (Link to this contribution) I am indebted to you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I do not think that anything that I have said, or am lik...
Speaker | 443 c645 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman of the rules of sub judice relating to individual cases currently...
Speaker | 443 c647 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that is a point of order for the Chair. I hope that all hon. Members will be pol...
Stephen Pound | 443 c647 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Are you aware that some hon. Members may be su...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c647 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand that some hon. Members might have to suck or...
Speaker | 443 c647 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. That thought crossed my mind, but I thought that it was better not say i...
Hazel Blears | 443 c686-7 (Link to this contribution) I understand the concerns of the Association of Police Authorities about putting the membership of p...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c684 (Link to this contribution) How can the Minister correlate moving the headquarters of West Mercia police from the three counties...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c684-5 (Link to this contribution) I think that the right hon. Lady is a little confused. She is saying that the Secretary of State is ...
Lord Garnier | 443 c683 (Link to this contribution) Yes, the hon. Gentleman was. There is plenty of evidence that that governmental habit has been repe...
Mark Francois | 443 c678-9 (Link to this contribution) When I served as a young officer in the Territorial Army, I learned a bit about morale. One of the g...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c677 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very powerful point about Essex council tax payers having to pay more. Th...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c669 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the hon. Gentleman was in his place when I spoke in the debate earlier. He is pr...
Douglas Carswell | 443 c664-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his helpful intervention—but we can use the example, because in the m...
David Howarth | 443 c664 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to follow the hon. Gentleman’s argument, but he should know that Rudy Giuliani was elect...
Douglas Carswell | 443 c663-4 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House, especially Front Benchers, for missing the opening stages of the debate. A...
Annette Brooke | 443 c660-3 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being present at the beginning of this important debate, although I have contact...
James Brokenshire | 443 c659-60 (Link to this contribution) I agree that the local community should have a greater sense of control. The regionalisation debate ...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c643 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker; I am perhaps getting carried away with my theme. But having one, ...
Speaker | 443 c643 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman has illustrated his point; perhaps he will now confine his remarks to the ...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c640 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that excellent work is done up and down this land not only by the Scouts, C...
David Heath | 443 c632 (Link to this contribution) This is an extraordinarily important point, and one that we argued vigorously at the time of the int...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c631-2 (Link to this contribution) This is rather a sneaky Bill and, potentially, a pernicious one. If not substantially amended in Com...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c634-7 (Link to this contribution) I will return to that point on another occasion. I am here to argue against the proposals in the Bil...
David Howarth | 443 c616 (Link to this contribution) With regard to the new powers to give directions to police forces and authorities, does the Home Sec...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 443 c621-3 (Link to this contribution) Even Staffordshire, whose chief constable is leading the Home Secretary’s amalgamation ““hit squad””...
Charles Clarke | 443 c624 (Link to this contribution) I shall not respond to the general inaccuracies, but does the hon. Gentleman mean that he intends to...
James Duddridge | 443 c623 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, after a local referendum, the Government should be compelled to abid...
John Denham | 443 c628-31 (Link to this contribution) Such relationships are valuable, but for reasons that I shall set out I am not sure about the extent...
Charles Clarke | 443 c619 (Link to this contribution) As is characteristic of the hon. Gentleman, his description of the state of affairs is wrong; it fre...
Charles Clarke | 443 c616 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to say that we are widening the sources that might provoke an interventi...
Martin Linton | 443 c617 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the advent of the Metropolitan Police Authority has done a grea...
Charles Clarke | 443 c617-9 (Link to this contribution) First, it has been drawn to my attention by my Front-Bench colleagues that I did not pay appropriate...
David Leslie Taylor | 443 c620 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The Second Reading debate seems to be going considerably wi...
Hazel Blears | 443 c690-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes; the hon. Member for The Wrekin is not present. He raised the subject of West Mercia police, whi...
Hazel Blears | 443 c688-90 (Link to this contribution) May I try to make progress in dealing with hon. Members’ contributions? Otherwise we will all be her...
Sharon Hodgson | 443 c649-51 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill wholeheartedly. It contains numerous measures across a wide range of areas that w...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c652-3 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is revealing in what it does not include, rather than in what it does. It does not provide ...
Mark Francois | 443 c653 (Link to this contribution) I am enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech. If I may say so, he is making a powerful case. As for the lev...
Speaker | 443 c654 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is defying my advice very elegantly, but I recommend that he should not do...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c643-4 (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, Madam Deputy Speaker, the police force amalgamations, in which this Bill plays a pa...
Mark Francois | 443 c645-6 (Link to this contribution) I am mindful of the guidance that Madam Deputy Speaker has given the House with regard to sub judice...
Boris Johnson | 443 c644-5 (Link to this contribution) Of course I wish to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) on his sterl...
Boris Johnson | 443 c646-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is exactly on the point. It would not only be reassuring to people in this country if...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 443 c686 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the right hon. Lady has so little faith in local democracy. She talks about maintain...
Hazel Blears | 443 c685-6 (Link to this contribution) I am certainly not confused. I am absolutely clear about what the Bill is designed to achieve. It is...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c687 (Link to this contribution) Clause 15 gives district councillors a duty to refer a complaint by a constituent to the appropriate...
Hazel Blears | 443 c683-4 (Link to this contribution) I would not necessarily mention Salford; I said that the hon. and learned Gentleman could come to Ma...
Hazel Blears | 443 c684 (Link to this contribution) Any decisions about headquarters are operational matters for the police authority to consider in due...
Stephen Pound | 443 c683 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman has really caught the mood of the House.
Lord Garnier | 443 c679-83 (Link to this contribution) I want to begin with an apology. Like a number of Members who have spoken in today’s debate, I was n...
Lord Garnier | 443 c683 (Link to this contribution) I have, have not I? I invite those hon. Members who will serve on the Committee in due course to us...
Mark Francois | 443 c677 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point, which is entirely right. In most of ...
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c678 (Link to this contribution) The Minister shakes her head, but I can assure her that that is the case.
Bernard Jenkin | 443 c677-8 (Link to this contribution) By way of amplifying the point, our police force is among those with the highest morale in the Unite...
Mark Francois | 443 c674-7 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to be the fourth Essex Member of Parliament to be called to speak in the debate, foll...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c669-70 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. That is a general point, but it also relates to the police. When we implement mergers, we lo...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c670-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the hon. Gentleman is correct. Without hesitation, I am happy to endorse the view that he ...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c667-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to have caught your eye in this debate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, because the Bill is extens...
Philip Hollobone | 443 c665-7 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich (Mr. Carswell) on yet another example of his fr...
Douglas Carswell | 443 c664 (Link to this contribution) This is not Americanisation. The word ““sheriff”” derives from an ancient English term—the ““shire r...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c659 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that localism would be enhanced by directly elected police commissioners s...
James Brokenshire | 443 c657-9 (Link to this contribution) The Bill offers the House the opportunity of a wide-ranging debate on policing. I noted that the Hom...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c656 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to hon. Gentleman, whose interventions are timely but not always relevant. I welcome ...
Stephen Pound | 443 c656 (Link to this contribution) : We need not detain the hon. Gentleman.
Mark Pritchard | 443 c654-6 (Link to this contribution) That is a sound recommendation, which I am happy to accept, Mr. Deputy Speaker. May I turn to claus...
Chris Mullin | 443 c616 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the proposal probably looks quite logical on paper, but does my right hon. Friend ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c614-6 (Link to this contribution) There will certainly be clear guidance but, to be quite candid, I am sure that the hon. Lady will ac...
Mark Francois | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Home Secretary for his courtesy in giving way again. He has already stressed in his spee...
Dari Taylor | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear my right hon. Friend say that the basic command unit and the local authority ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) The House will not be surprised to learn that my hon. Friend, as usual, has got it completely spot o...
Charles Clarke | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way twice more before I make progress.
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 443 c612 (Link to this contribution) Any extension of powers for PCSOs will inevitably begin to impinge on police officers’ training. The...
Charles Clarke | 443 c612-3 (Link to this contribution) It is for that reason that the memorandum and guidance notes for the Bill set out in great detail pr...
Charles Clarke | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point that some PCSOs have raised with me directly from their personal experience. Th...
Peter Bone | 443 c612 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the initiative to put local policing at the centre of Government policy. Unfortunately, th...
Charles Clarke | 443 c612 (Link to this contribution) I cannot speak about the specific case that the hon. Gentleman mentions. However, we propose the reo...
Jeremy Wright | 443 c612 (Link to this contribution) I understand the points that the Home Secretary makes about standardising powers for police communit...
Charles Clarke | 443 c612 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman puts the matter correctly—PCSOs are an addition, not a replacement. The PCSOs hav...
Ian Lucas | 443 c611 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the remoteness of community safety partnerships is one of the w...
Charles Clarke | 443 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal specifically with that shortly because the coterminosity of the basic command unit and ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c609 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend has said, that partnership is central to the proposal. When we fight crime, it is ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c609 (Link to this contribution) The Bill does not specifically concern the force amalgamations in the west midlands to which my hon....
Jim Cunningham | 443 c609 (Link to this contribution) I note that my right hon. Friend has made tremendous progress in certain areas in the fight against ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c609 (Link to this contribution) That perception is utterly wrong. When a major issue such as a tragic murder arises in a small polic...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c609 (Link to this contribution) One reason why West Mercia police is not in favour of the proposal to amalgamate into a larger force...
Charles Clarke | 443 c610 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment, as is my practice, but I shall make some more progress before doing so....
Charles Clarke | 443 c609-10 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way for the moment. This means instilling a modern culture of respect at the neighb...
Philip Davies | 443 c611 (Link to this contribution) Does the Home Secretary agree that neighbourhood policing is not just about community support office...
Charles Clarke | 443 c610-1 (Link to this contribution) When I come to the end of the phase of my speech to do with neighbourhood policing, I will give way ...
Charles Clarke | 443 c611 (Link to this contribution) Local policing is central to neighbourhood policing and other matters. One of the exciting things th...
Keith Vaz | 443 c608-9 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend confirm that one of the central points of the proposal is a partnership be...
Charles Clarke | 443 c608 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The central objective of the Bill is to hel...
Charles Clarke | 443 c613-4 (Link to this contribution) We have already addressed this issue across the Floor of the House, and it is not a matter that is d...
Philip Hollobone | 443 c613 (Link to this contribution) If the Home Secretary is going to stop short of giving the power of arrest to PCSOs, will he conside...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 443 c619-20 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House for the absence of the shadow Home Secretary, who is detained in the north ...
Madeleine Moon | 443 c637 (Link to this contribution) It would appear that there is much in this Bill that parties on both sides of the House clearly welc...
Charles Clarke | 443 c616 (Link to this contribution) First, there is no question of diluting the powers. That would be a mistake, and I agree with the im...
Baroness Featherstone | 443 c614 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Home Secretary for giving way again. I wanted to raise the issue of giving registered so...
Mark Pritchard | 443 c620-1 (Link to this contribution) : Further to that point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I thought that I would try to help. The fact i...
Charles Clarke | 443 c619 (Link to this contribution) I am very agreeable to that proposal. I pay tribute to the way in which the hon. Gentleman and other...
Andrew Mackinlay | 443 c692 (Link to this contribution) And advice from a senior Labour Back Bencher?
Hazel Blears | 443 c683 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. and learned Member for Harborough (Mr. Garnier) has had such a frustrating ...
Mark Francois | 443 c670 (Link to this contribution) I thank my fellow Essex Member of Parliament for giving way and endorse his comments on the future o...
Charles Clarke | 443 c617 (Link to this contribution) I agree very much with my hon. Friend. That is one aspect of the Government’s record in relation to ...

Subjects

Children
Criminal proceedings
Accountability
Crime
Arrests
Aviation
Anti-social behaviour
Extradition
Inspections
Immigration
Greater London
Information
Local government
Police
Powers
Prisons
Police custody
Mergers
Passengers
Police authorities
Police community support officers
Police cautions
Standards
Surveillance
Training
Young people
Young offenders
Transport
Social rented housing
Shipping
Truancy
USA
Anti-social behaviour orders
Parenting contracts
Parenting orders
Crime and disorder reduction partnerships

Legislation

Police and Justice Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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