UK Parliament / Open data

Civil Aviation Bill

Debate on bills on Monday, 27 June 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Stephen Ladyman. The answering member was Alan Duncan.
Civil Aviation Bill. Second reading debate agreed to on question. Programme motion on proceedings in Committee, Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Ways and means resolution agreed to on question (formal).

About these Parliamentary proceedings

Reference

435 c1036-111 

Session

2005-06

Department

Department for Transport

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Programme motions
Ways and means resolutions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Civil Aviation Bill. Explanatory notes Bill 12-EN also published (Vote)
Thursday, 9 June 2005
Bills
House of Commons
Financial protection for air travellers. Transport Select Committee fifteenth report with proceedings and appendices.
Monday, 5 July 2004
Parliamentary committees
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

John Pugh | 435 c1069 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. and learned Gentleman makes a good point about the lack of an independent appeal, but the...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1069 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady will know from her experience that Gatwick is a designated airport under the Civil Avi...

Show all contributions (160)
Laura Moffatt | 435 c1068 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. and learned Gentleman tell us what assessment he has made of airports or operators with...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1072 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about freedom. Does he accept that one of the characteristics to which he refer...
Mark Prisk | 435 c1072 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a reasoned and cogent argument. I certainly would not want this country...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1072 (Link to this contribution) I do. I accept that principle, not just for aviation but for other parts of the economy. It is a pro...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) I have two responses to my hon. Friend’s point. First, it was nobody’s decision but those local auth...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1069-70 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman’s point defeats my argument. As he has drawn our attention to ...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1070 (Link to this contribution) In these debates, I always feel that that I am declaring interests that I do not really have. I was ...
Alan Keen | 435 c1062-6 (Link to this contribution) We—when I say ““we””, I am talking about my hon. and special Friend the Member for Brentford and Isl...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1062 (Link to this contribution) : I am sure that my hon. Friend would show due gratitude for the fact that at least Heathrow airport...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1066 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Alan Keen) will forgive me if I do not follow him too far in...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1066 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. and learned Gentleman dissociate himself from the observations of our geographical n...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) I did not quite hear the hon. Gentleman. If he intended to refer to the hon. Member who represents M...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1067 (Link to this contribution) : I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for his giving way during his powerful speech. May we,...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that we can hope all we like. We must await the Government’s response in due course, but i...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1068 (Link to this contribution) In short, is the hon. and learned Gentleman making the point that the powers to direct non-designate...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1068 (Link to this contribution) The powers should be operated by some dispassionate agency, some third party. Were the hon. Gentlema...
Tom Brake | 435 c1059 (Link to this contribution) I agree. There is a clear conflict between the need of airport operators to secure business, and the...
John P Smith | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Where does the hon. Gentleman get his idea from that the industry will increase threefold by 2030? A...
Tom Brake | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) We could debate whether it is twice or three times, but we cannot debate the fact that the aviation ...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman leaves his overview of the Bill, it has been reported that he believes tha...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) The main airports in London—Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted—are designated as those where the Secreta...
Tom Brake | 435 c1060-2 (Link to this contribution) I will let other Members judge what they feel about the Secretary of State being complicit and wheth...
Adam Afriyie | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that hidden away in the Bill is the scope for an airport such as Heathrow to exceed t...
Tom Brake | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman’s interpretation is identical to mine. The Bill creates an opportunity for the nu...
Alan Keen | 435 c1062 (Link to this contribution) This is a Bill of bits and pieces, but sometimes it is necessary to cover all the bits and pieces an...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1059 (Link to this contribution) Is not the reality that, in this context, self-regulation is absurd? It is equivalent to asking brew...
Tom Brake | 435 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) I begin by thanking the Secretary of State for contacting me to explain his absence from today’s deb...
Laura Moffatt | 435 c1057 (Link to this contribution) Certainly, I have no difficulty with bringing together expertise and allowing airlines to ensure tha...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1057 (Link to this contribution) No one could challenge what the hon. Lady has said about health, but the Bill says that airlines sho...
Laura Moffatt | 435 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend, and I know how strongly he feels about making sure that passengers’ health i...
John P Smith | 435 c1057 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree not only that it is correct that airlines should have a levy on them to pa...
Laura Moffatt | 435 c1055-6 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased to rise to support the Second Reading of this important Bill. As I look round the ...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1055 (Link to this contribution) Let me map out a fundamental alternative scenario to the position that I outlined earlier. The world...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1056 (Link to this contribution) I am in a parallel position in relation to the so-called Nottingham East Midlands airport in North-W...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1055 (Link to this contribution) : British Airways may offer places where it has spaces available, but there is no guarantee that bec...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1053-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might have such noise in his more urban setting, but it is much more punitive in ...
Mark Todd | 435 c1052 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that he made remarks that suggested that his constituents’ concerns a...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1052 (Link to this contribution) There is a growing case for designating such airports. Let me say more about NEMA; it is a case in ...
Mark Todd | 435 c1052 (Link to this contribution) I would say that I am an objective observer living under its flight path. May I test the hon. Gentle...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1052 (Link to this contribution) Here is a champion of NEMA in many respects.
Alan Duncan | 435 c1051-2 (Link to this contribution) My point is that the Bill is a piecemeal development that lacks an overall strategy. With reference...
Jim Cunningham | 435 c1049 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman say something about the smaller airports such as Coventry, where environment...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1048-9 (Link to this contribution) This is the Civil Aviation Bill, and I think, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that you would prefer me to confin...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) : I am following the hon. Gentleman’s arguments closely. He is long on analysis and short on solutio...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1049-50 (Link to this contribution) The people of Coventry are about to enjoy a delightful feast, as I am about to come to those sort of...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has made an important point. If the Opposition were so committed for years, why w...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) I am only just getting into my speech, but if the Minister really wants to intervene, I will give wa...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has said something very interesting. Does he assume that this approach will relat...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) Of course. I do so with deference.
Alan Duncan | 435 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) May I first acknowledge the courtesy of the Secretary of State for Transport in letting me know last...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not have the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question. I can understand the concerns that he exp...
Lembit Opik | 435 c1046 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that it would be possible for airports to share their expertise—for example, in ai...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1046 (Link to this contribution) Presumably, as Nottingham East Midlands airport is owned by the Manchester Airport Group, which is o...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) I would rather move on, as I suspect that there are points later in my speech that will be of even m...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1045 (Link to this contribution) The commitment that I have given my hon. Friend is that we will deal with the matter as quickly as w...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1043 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes some good points. Before the general election, the Government began work to mak...
Brian H Donohoe | 435 c1043-4 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may well want to travel to the United States where he may see an airline—one of the lar...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1043 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend’s point and we have received a number of representations on this matter,...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1043 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will also be aware that I was a Minister when the original scheme was introduced an...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been astonishingly kind in giving way. It takes a long time to get civil aviation...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1045 (Link to this contribution) One thing I have noticed about my hon. Friend is that every argument that disagrees with one of hers...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1044 (Link to this contribution) They are as I have just pointed out. The larger airlines, which are known to be sound and have a goo...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1044 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend is not suggesting that the British Government should indemnify flying tra...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1040 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly true that the airport operator needs airlines to make profit at his airport. However...
Lord Randall of Uxbridge | 435 c1040 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that the Bill could give the Government powers, should they want to use them,...
Lembit Opik | 435 c1042 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister aware of an irony in the potential tax system for general aviation, which, although ...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1042-3 (Link to this contribution) The Government are happy to receive representations. I suggest that the best Minister to make the re...
Gwyneth Dunwoody | 435 c1043 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will be aware that many travellers, because of the way tickets and holidays are purch...
Mark Prisk | 435 c1041 (Link to this contribution) May I press the Minister further? Will he now rule out the idea that the Government have any intenti...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1041 (Link to this contribution) I will not rule out anything. I have made it clear that the rules were set out in the existing legis...
Robin Cook | 435 c1041-2 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that my hon. Friend is acting to control local pollution caused by aviation, but he w...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1042 (Link to this contribution) I can give my right hon. Friend those assurances. We shall use our presidency over the next six mont...
Mark Prisk | 435 c1038 (Link to this contribution) With regard to Stansted, which is adjacent to my constituency, is the Minister suggesting that the q...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1038 (Link to this contribution) No. The Government’s intention is that there should be a proper consultation among the stakeholders ...
John Pugh | 435 c1039 (Link to this contribution) In the case of the smaller airports, are the public or the local authority statutory consultees? If ...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The logic of the hon. Gentleman’s most attractive argument is that other airports should be designat...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to disappoint the hon. and learned Gentleman; we have no such plans at this point. It wou...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right: if we are to have stringent noise control, we have to define ““stringent””....
Andrew Mackinlay | 435 c1040 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend suggests that the airport operator is to be the policeman when an aircraft operator d...
Mark Todd | 435 c1039 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been very patient. I have two points for him to consider. The White Paper referre...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) I will reflect on that question and let the hon. Gentleman know the answer in good time. I thank him...
John Bercow | 435 c1037 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his appointment—I am only sorry that for the second time in suc...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1037 (Link to this contribution) Let me make some progress first. We have a full day’s debate, so we will have plenty of time to disc...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1037 (Link to this contribution) The Bill gives such power to the airport authorities, and as my hon. Friend correctly says, in many ...
Mark Todd | 435 c1037 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that the Bill proposes to give these powers to the airports themselves, a...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. First, let me pass on the apologies of my r...
Baroness Kramer | 435 c1036 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not accept that for those who live under the flight path, as many of my constituen...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the Bill, as I will explain in a moment, is to empower those responsible for monitori...
John P Smith | 435 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady’s question started well, but became somewhat loaded towards the end. If it is economic...
Adam Afriyie | 435 c1081 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is enthusiastic about aviation, but many hon. Members are worried about the growt...
John P Smith | 435 c1081-3 (Link to this contribution) That almost happened following the horrendous terrorist attacks in New York in September 2001, becau...
John P Smith | 435 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I am well aware that doctors give such advice, but we are debating the Civil Aviation Bill. It is no...
Mark Lazarowicz | 435 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but is it not true that even in the UK, seven airlines have gon...
Robert Syms | 435 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to speak on the Bill. It is a bit of a rag-tag—a miscellaneous Bill consisting of b...
Jim McGovern | 435 c1088-90 (Link to this contribution) The Bill seems to have one theme running through it—to address more seriously the by-products of the...
Justine Greening | 435 c1083-8 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the chance to speak in this debate on the Civil Aviatio...
Robert Syms | 435 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I note what the hon. Gentleman says, but that argument can be applied to a whole range of activities...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept that the industry is a tax-free zone—it is not—and it contributes almost £1 billion ...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1073 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting speech but surely he has missed the point: in many insta...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I have not missed the point. Having sat on the board of an airport company, I say that t...
Justine Greening | 435 c1074 (Link to this contribution) Twice as many flights land at Heathrow compared with 20 years ago. Does that not suggest that total ...
Mark Prisk | 435 c1076-9 (Link to this contribution) I commend the remarks by the hon. Member for Manchester, Blackley (Graham Stringer). Although I susp...
Graham Stringer | 435 c1074-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point, which I think is about 10 or 15 per cent. right. Like most people ...
Adam Afriyie | 435 c1079 (Link to this contribution) : As a supporter of the aviation industry, does the hon. Gentleman also support the environmental ...
John P Smith | 435 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to speak in support of the Bill in this Second Reading debate. It is a goo...
Justine Greening | 435 c1079-80 (Link to this contribution) : Does the hon. Gentleman therefore think that any amount of future expansion of air travel and the ...
John P Smith | 435 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman asking about targets for the industry, or climate change generally? Yes, I am ...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been generous in giving way but still has not addressed the central issue that nobo...
Karen Buck | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) I understand that the hon. and learned Gentleman and others take that view, but the review in 2002–0...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) What evidence does the hon. Lady have that Nottingham East Midlands is doing what she says or thinks...
Karen Buck | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) The powers are extant and we believe that they are adequate for the purpose.
Karen Buck | 435 c1109-10 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that it is a question of semantics. As I said, airports want the powers to be clari...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1109 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that the penalties are not criminal, but they are still penalties. They are still...
Lord Garnier | 435 c1106 (Link to this contribution) It is all very well to talk about local circumstances, but the Government never decide what they mea...
Karen Buck | 435 c1106 (Link to this contribution) The thrust of the Bill makes it clear that airports should work with partners, with the airlines, to...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1107 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has not addressed the central objection that all monitoring—whether we are talking abou...
Karen Buck | 435 c1106-7 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the hon. and learned Gentleman and others have pursued matters to do with Nottingh...
Justine Greening | 435 c1107 (Link to this contribution) How do you know that for sure when you are not measuring noise in places like Putney?
Karen Buck | 435 c1107 (Link to this contribution) I am about to move on to that. I was setting the environmental issues in a slightly broader context....
Karen Buck | 435 c1107-8 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, the hon. Lady should use the correct terminology. The hon. Lady and, I thin...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) Under what circumstances and in what way would the Minister intervene if a regional airport failed t...
Karen Buck | 435 c1108 (Link to this contribution) Discussions on NEMA have revealed a desire that the Secretary of State has power to intervene to des...
Karen Buck | 435 c1104-5 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend suggests, I can only confirm that our policy on regional airports throughout the U...
Adam Afriyie | 435 c1104 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (John Smith) seemed to suggest that he would love to have a si...
Karen Buck | 435 c1104 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very thoughtful and balanced debate among hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber,...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I am unsure whether the hon. Gentleman is on foot or on horseback. When the hon. Member for Rutland ...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 435 c1106 (Link to this contribution) Smaller airports might be limited to smaller and particular aircraft. They should not be unduly pena...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 435 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind the social impact, can the Minister give me some assurances that aircraft using airp...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1098-100 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate, which has highlighted the sometimes contradictory passions and pi...
Adam Afriyie | 435 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Member for North-West Leicestershire (David Taylor) for his excellent and balanced ...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1100 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The record of individual airfields is uneven, with some doing be...
Lord Horam | 435 c1100 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend hits on precisely the right point. As I know in respect of my own local airport, even...
John Pugh | 435 c1095-7 (Link to this contribution) This is a Bill of one big issue and several smaller ones. I shall refer to the smaller ones first. F...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1092-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to be called to speak in this debate, not least because I was unable to be present for...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1100 (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that I owe the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Duncan), who opened the deba...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) I hear what the Minister says, but he has not addressed the central point that these matters will be...
Alan Keen | 435 c1101 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recall that about 10 years ago when his party was in government, it reduced ...
Julian Brazier | 435 c1101-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point, and it is very amusing, but we are trying to sort out where we g...
David Leslie Taylor | 435 c1070-1 (Link to this contribution) At one time, Nottingham East Midlands airport was owned by the local authorities of Derby city, Derb...
Laura Moffatt | 435 c1056-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. Because of the very different set-up in my constituency...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1039 (Link to this contribution) The local authority has planning responsibility for an airport and an involvement in setting the con...
Karen Buck | 435 c1105 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a specific point. I am sure that he has good reason for wanting to raise th...
Tom Brake | 435 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I can confirm that the level of the increase that is projected—a threefold increase by 2030—is envir...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1052 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not give way. He will have a chance to speak later if ...
Alan Duncan | 435 c1048 (Link to this contribution) We published detailed proposals, which I am sorry the Minister did not have the diligence to read. I...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1046 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that that follows at all. The permitted activities could include selling expertise i...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1040-1 (Link to this contribution) Any changes that the Government would make to noise regulations at an airport would have to follow a...
Karen Buck | 435 c1108-9 (Link to this contribution) The power of designation remains if we believe that airports are failing in their duties. We believe...
Maria Eagle | 435 c1107 (Link to this contribution) By using the correct terminology.
Julian Brazier | 435 c1103 (Link to this contribution) We are broadly in favour of bringing all airports on to the same footing, but we appear to have a fu...
Stephen Ladyman | 435 c1081 (Link to this contribution) May I point out to my hon. Friend that the national health service is also doing its bit? When I vis...

Subjects

Companies
Aviation
Air pollution
Aircraft
Airports
Air routes
Health
Finance
Licensing
Fines
Exhaust emissions
Heathrow Airport
Protection
Monitoring
Passengers
Noise
Regional airports
Stansted Airport
Unknown
Gatwick Airport
Air Travel Trust
Aviation Health Unit

Legislation

Civil Aviation Bill 2005-06

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk
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