Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill

I had not planned to speak in this section of the debate, but I was moved to do so by the eloquence of many of the contributions to it. We are debating TPIMs versus control orders, and the House will have heard in my intervention on the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) that I do not see a whole lot of difference between them in terms of the underlying principles. I do not welcome TPIMs any more than I welcome control orders. I voted against control orders in the last Parliament and will continue to do so in this Parliament—and against TPIMs—for much the same reasons as the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) has eloquently explained to the House. We are getting into a debate about sunset clauses versus a review. I would prefer a sunset clause on the Bill; indeed, any special legislation should automatically have a very short sunset clause attached to it as a matter of course. We are passing major legislation that has a huge effect on the civil liberties of everybody. However, if we cannot have that—I do support the Opposition Front Benchers in this respect—we should at least have a 12-month review. One has to remember the atmosphere in this House in which we considered the question of special legislation. The Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1974 was passed after the Birmingham pub bombings. They were appalling, they were disgraceful, and in that fevered atmosphere the House passed that Act, which it renewed at six-monthly intervals for a very long time. The only time when anti-terrorism legislation was passed in an atmosphere of relative calm was in 2000. All other such Acts were passed in respect of some awful event somewhere. At those times, the House met in a fevered atmosphere and said that it was important that, because of the nature of what had happened—be it 9/11, 7/7, Canary Wharf or any of a host of appalling incidents around the world or in this country—we had to pass the legislation because it would deal with the problem. Did the Prevention of Terrorism Act deal with the problem? No, it did not deal with it at all. It probably generated more support for those who wish to commit those acts than anything else, because it criminalised large numbers of people who had committed no criminal wrong. It criminalised large numbers of people who became very frightened, just as subsequent anti-terror legislation has done. We should therefore be very careful in what we are doing. My right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) pointed out in an intervention that there is judicial oversight over the 2005 legislation. That is true, and there are special judges, special courts and special advocates. However, all that is actually very dangerous, because it removes the relationship between the defendant and their representative, in that the latter is not allowed to reveal the full nature of the case against them. Only the judge knows the full nature of the case against them, along with, presumably, those promoting—for want of a better word—the prosecution against the individual. That is a denial of justice, because justice has to be done and be seen to be done. The person who is being judged against must be fully aware of all the evidence being used against them. As the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion pointed out, we are allowing Executive control orders to be placed, with a limited degree of judicial oversight, over people against whom no criminal prosecution has been made. Let us consider the awful information that emerged from Libya concerning somebody who was deported there, and who suffered greatly as a result. That was a continuation of the idea that special laws require special purposes, and special events require special deals. Hence, the Government under Prime Minister Blair exchanged a series of letters with a number of north African and other countries that allowed people to be removed to those countries who had not necessarily committed any crime in this country—at least, it had not been proved by a court—on the basis that those regimes would be very nice and not torture people, despite their not having signed the UN convention against torture. We should be very careful when we start undermining the whole principle of our own law and international law, which is what we are doing with this legislation. I support the Opposition's new clause 7, which at least gives us a 12-month review. It is not what I want but it is better than nothing, and it does give an opportunity for a debate, although I should point out that I have sat through virtually every PTA review debate, some of which were fairly perfunctory, to put it at its politest. However, I am not prepared to vote for the other two provisions because they do not take account of the degree of concern and opposition that exists to control orders and the accompanying legislation, or of the nature of the underlying case. If there is a threat to our society—I am quite sanguine about this: there are threats, dangers and problems—there is criminal law to deal with it. The ability exists to bring out criminal evidence against the individuals who have perpetrated those acts. However, because we are so keen to protect the power of our security services and those who do not have to give evidence or come out into the open, but whose information is so devastating against the individuals concerned, we are taking a dangerous move. I know that a small number of people are affected at present, but I see this as the slippery slope—away from what should be an open legal system in an open and liberal democracy. That is why I am not happy about the TPIMs process, any more than I was about control orders. The very least that we can do is to review the legislation every 12 months. I would rather we did not produce this legislation at all, and instead promoted open criminal law to deal with criminal acts that damage our society.