Localism Bill

My Lords, this is a very interesting Bill, as the noble Lord has said. I wonder how much it really has to do with localism. I sometimes think that it is more to do with moving the deckchairs of Treasury control, which wants to charge for anything that it can see that is chargeable or that can be moved, but we shall see. We will have some interesting debates on this in Committee stage. I will confine my remarks to two things: the issue about EU fines, which the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, has just mentioned, and the issue of planning for major projects. As the noble Lord has just said, the ability that the Bill will give Ministers to require local authorities to make a payment for an EU financial sanction imposed on the UK—if the Minister is satisfied that the authority caused it—is quite a serious issue. Interestingly, in the Starred Question which I raised on 23 May, I asked whether the Government were likely to be fined, or to have deducted from their money, £180 million by the International Olympic Committee if the air pollution did not achieve the EU limits. Of course, there is also the threat of the £300 million fine from the EU if the air pollution in London exceeds the PM10 level. In considering who should pay either of those fines, it is interesting that when I asked the noble Earl, Lord Atlee, who was responsible for this pollution, he answered: "““Everyone is responsible: the Government, the mayor, TfL, LOCOG, the ODA and, most importantly, individuals who make their own transport decisions””.—[Official Report, 23/5/11; col. 1583.]" I can see some real fun occurring when the Government try to finger any of those people for £180 million or £300 million, especially when of course, as the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, said, the Government are not a disinterested party. Perhaps they will put tolls on the roads—I do not know. There has to be some independent adjudication, whether it is the High Court or an independent arbitrator, to determine a fair apportionment of the fine. Government cannot be the one to make the decision. We will have to pursue this in Committee stage, but it really has to be tightened up dramatically to see who really was at fault and whether they could be fingered for any of the money at all. My other concern, which the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, mentioned earlier, is about the ability of major projects to get permissions, and the uncertainty that this will cause for investors. I am talking about airports, ports, wind farms, freight terminals, nuclear power stations, railway lines and anything else that comes under the auspices of the national Infrastructure Planning Commission, which was set up under the Planning Act 2008. The purpose was to ensure that national policy statements would set national policy for these issues, which would avert the need for the promoter —whether in the private sector or the Government—to demonstrate a need for the project. We have national policy statements for nuclear power stations, and we think that we know where they are going to be. We have national policy statements for waste water—one project is for an 8 metre diameter tunnel from Hammersmith to Beckton Alp, under the Thames and following its line. Those who wish to oppose it may find it difficult to oppose the principle if it is covered by an NPS. However, where are the other ones? If there is no NPS, how can promoters have any confidence that they will get planning permission, even after a big inquiry? Further issues include how the national planning policy framework fits in to the jig-saw, and Ministers rather than NPS officials making final decisions. We may have a view on that—over the years some Ministers have been better than others at making such decisions—but my concern, apart from where all the documents are to encourage developers to go ahead with projects, is that anyone who lives near the locations of some of these planned projects can ask for a referendum. I worked for many years building the Channel Tunnel, and I worked with the Channel Tunnel rail link. It was difficult persuading local people that these were good things for the country and might even create a few local jobs. A local referendum in those places would have killed everything. Gatwick airport has a similar concern if it ever wants planning permission to make changes. We can debate whether we like these things or not, and try to take a line through the middle, but my concern is: what company is going to invest in such projects, at a cost of £10 million, £20 million or £50 million—it is very expensive to get these projects through planning procedures—if there is a greater risk that it will be rejected by a referendum? I feel sorry for the Secretary of State for Transport, who is trying to push through the high-speed passenger line from London to Birmingham and beyond. How many referenda will he have in the middle of the Chiltern hills, and what will be the result? Will he ignore them, try to stop them happening or try to get the line through before the Bill becomes law? I trust that it will be the latter, but I do not know. Finally, I believe that it will be possible for people in London to have a referendum on the level of tube or bus fares. Does anyone believe that people will vote for higher fares? It would be ridiculous for TfL to have to spend £2 million or £5 million for a referendum on a question that it already knows the answer to—that would not help its finances. Therefore, there must be exclusions, possibly for applications for planning permission for a much wider range of projects than I have talked about, and for fares. These are all things that I and others will raise in Committee, and I look forward to long and detailed discussions.