European Union Bill

Several Members on both sides of the Committee have referred to England, the English Parliament and Britain. Let me gently remind the House that our nation state is the United Kingdom, and it is much more pertinent, particularly when discussing the issue of sovereignty, to get its name right. My right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), who is an ardent and sincere pro-European and was a very good Minister for Europe, told the Committee that neither he nor the present Government would support giving the people of the United Kingdom a referendum on Turkey's entry into the European Union because, in effect, we know that the outcome would be a no vote. I suggest to him, and to those on the Treasury Bench, that it is difficult for the people of our country to have great faith in the European idea if the Government of the day are simply going to say, ““We know you won't agree with what we have decided, so we are not going to give you an opportunity to have your say.”” That is the type of challenge that we have faced over the past 25 to 30 years. I am probably, by the standards of my party, a Eurosceptic, but I do not believe, as was so well articulated by my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham and others, that our interests would be served by coming out of Europe, which is our largest trading partner. Whatever the flaws of the European Union—and there are many—the idea that we could have the same trading relationship with the other 26 nations if we were not part of a single bloc is ludicrous. Several Members referred to the history of sovereignty. As the loyalists on the Government Benches traipse through the No Lobby later on, they might wish to take a moment or two, in between being given a pat on the back by their Whips for having been so loyal to their principles—I am sorry, their careers—to look at the exhibition on the wall outside to my left, which gives an account of the dispute between James I of England, who was also James VI of Scotland, and Parliament in 1621. I am sure, Mr Evans, that as a good parliamentarian you know that King James was very much in favour of close ties with the Spanish king and Parliament did not share his pro-European views. When Parliament protested to the King about his pro-European policies, he had the Journal of the House torn up because he would not accept Parliament's comments. In a letter back to Parliament, he said that the House need not"““meddle…with any thing concerning our government or deep matters of state””." It is disappointing that 380-odd years later, those on the Treasury Bench have adopted the same, very regal position towards this House. I listened carefully to the hon. Members for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) and for Dover (Charlie Elphicke), who seem to be the main advocates for clause 18, although they accept that it is a tokenistic gesture designed to mollify their Eurosceptic colleagues. However, having listened attentively to the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), among others, I do not think that that gesture has worked. The hon. Member for Dover said that clause 18 probably does no harm. I am slightly surprised about that, because Labour Members are often lectured by Conservative Members about the need for less regulation, legislation and bureaucracy. It is setting the bar very low to argue for a clause on the basis that it does no harm. That is a slightly absurd position for any party, particularly one that is calling for less legislation. I am afraid that I cannot possibly support clause 18 if the best argument that can be put forward is that it does not do much of anything. My hon. Friend the shadow Minister and my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) asked what the Government's motivations were in moving from a sovereignty Bill to a sovereignty clause. My hon. Friend the Member for North Durham suggested that it is the result of a coalition deal in which the Deputy Prime Minister, the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) and others forced the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), to give up his long-held principles on the issue of sovereignty. Let me suggest to Government Members that the Notting Hill set, or the Cameroonians as they are fondly called by some, did not particularly support this in the first place, that it might be worth reflecting on whether it is unfair to blame the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale for having diluted the sovereignty Bill down to a clause, and that perhaps the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, who are really quite pro-European, as much as they may deny it, were also involved. I am disappointed that the Foreign Office Minister was unable to join us at any point this evening, as I understand that he told The Daily Telegraph some very interesting things about his views on the coalition and about how he and the Foreign Secretary have been getting on. Perhaps the Minister who winds up the debate can update us on how diplomatic relations are going in the Foreign Office at the moment. In conclusion, will the Minister outline why the Government feel that clause 18 is so important and explain the impact of its deletion on the Bill overall and on the UK's relationship with the European Union?