Local Government Bill [HL]

I hope your Lordships will appreciate that I would not have dreamt of standing up on this amendment if we had not had this tour de force of recrimination about the failure to get these two orders through because the judge found against them. I thought that we were talking about the amendments. I also thought that I was entitled, as a Member of this House, to answer what has been said. But I will now move to the fact that the purpose and clear intention of these two amendments is to sabotage this Bill because it would be the status quo ante. It would bring the whole thing back. It would prevent a closure of Exeter and Norwich. Turning specifically to some of the points made very briefly—perhaps unlike the noble Lord—I was going to point out that Exeter is well looked after by Devon. The culture of Exeter is understood by Devon and I will give two examples. Councillor Vanessa Newcombe is a twin-hat councillor for Exeter and for Devon. Councillor Andrew Leadbetter has been, with the agreement of Devon and of Exeter councils, made in the Cabinet of Devon a councillor specially responsible for Exeter. He lives in Exeter and has done so for 35 years. His loyalties are as much to Exeter as they are to Devon, as indeed are the loyalties of Councillor Vanessa Newcombe. To suggest that Exeter is in some way in a difficult position because it is not understood and is not taken account of, from someone who is concerned with Norwich and does not know what goes on in Exeter and Devon, I find absolutely astonishing. The relationship between Exeter and Devon means that Exeter has gained from payments made by the county relating to matters such as the new shopping centre at Princesshay, the building of five secondary schools and two primary schools in Exeter and, indeed, the proposal to have an eco-neutral school which is about to be built somewhere near St. Thomas. A waste energy plant is also about to be built by Devon County Council and, interestingly, Councillor Vanessa Newcombe, with her two hats, says in an e-mail of which I have a copy here that she views Exeter and Devon as, ““not being able to survive without each other””. The whole of what is being suggested here would put us back to a position that your Lordships felt was not tenable on 22 March and, I respectfully suggest, is not tenable today.