Al-Qaida and Taliban (Asset-Freezing) Regulations 2010

I thank the noble Baroness for adding that observation. As I have said, these regulations implement EC regulations, but her observation is important. There is limited scope for us to determine how we implement the Bill, but given that the information-gathering powers largely replicate those of the Bill, we will of course consider these regulations again in the light of the Bill’s passage. I am aware that the point is being made—by, I think, both the Conservative and Liberal spokesmen—that the process does not, for instance, allow the tabling of amendments. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has identified an area where she would table an amendment, if only for probing purposes. I am much persuaded by the argument. I will therefore reflect carefully with officials on whether there is a process by which we can allow the orders to be subject to further parliamentary approval in a manner that would allow noble Lords to table amendments, either in the belief that they should be passed or, at least, to probe more carefully the Government’s thinking. I will also further reflect on the noble Baroness’s observations on whether a consultative process should be linked to these regulations, as they were to the previous ones. There is a significant degree of overlap here, but we need to reflect carefully on whether there is a case for some further consultative process to inform thinking and decision making. That is another reason why it is incumbent on the Government, having persuaded the House to allow a sunset date of the end of December, to take full and complete advantage of the time that we have secured. Parliament did not grant us that time on the basis that we would dither or drag our feet in preparing the necessary work, but that we should be able to evidence that we have used the time as part of a good process to consult widely, and to permit Parliament to engage in close and detailed scrutiny of all aspects of this regulation. I, for one, am deeply aware that there are very fine issues of balance which need to be achieved here, between protecting society against a risk that the security forces continue to tell me is high and, at the same time, being respectful of civic liberties and individual rights. Having taken note of what the noble Baronesses, Lady Noakes and Lady Hamwee, said on this point, I may write in due course with further consideration. However, I would like them both to be very clear that, to the extent that I have any future involvement in this process, it will be my wish that there should be full and proper scrutiny. I say that not, of course, in having any doubt about the outcome of the forthcoming general election, but the Prime Minister might come to the conclusion, as many people in the House already have, that there is probably somebody better able to do this job than me—proud as I am to be doing it. The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, asked about the figures. Perhaps I might repeat that £140,000 of funds is frozen under the UN al-Qaeda and Taliban regime; in addition, there is £150,000 frozen under the terrorism order, so the total is just under £300,000. The noble Baroness also asked about Regulation 9 and the use of "neglect". I am advised by officials that neglect means a lack of care that a reasonable person would show. We would expect that any prosecution would be brought only if there was clear evidence of a failure to follow proper procedures. A question was asked about challenges to licensing decisions. Schedule 2(1) adds these regulations to the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008. The effect is to provide a procedure for applications to a court to set aside licensing decisions. I am also aware of the JCHR report on counterterrorism and human rights, which I believe was published only today. I have not had an opportunity to study it, and no doubt the Government will want to look carefully at what the JCHR has said. As the Explanatory Memorandum makes clear, the regulations before us are compliant with the Human Rights Act. The EC regulation is already UK law. The freeze on al-Qaeda and Taliban assets is already given force through EC regulation. However, it is important that we pass these regulations to enforce the sanctions and to provide penalties for breaches of the regulations. This will ensure that we continue to meet our international obligations, and will give the UK a more effective mechanism for compliance and for enforcement of the freeze in order to prevent funds from reaching al-Qaeda and the Taliban. In closing, I emphasise again that in these times of severe threat to our national security, we must take the necessary steps to prevent terrorists from raising funds and using them for terrorist purposes. A proper framework to implement EC regulation effectively, and to provide penalties for non-compliance, is essential both to help prevent terrorist financing and to meet our international obligations. I will write to the noble Baronesses, Lady Noakes and Lady Hamwee, with the answers to any detailed questions that I have not addressed in my closing speech. I commend the regulations to the Grand Committee. Motion agreed.