Tobacco Advertising and Promotion (Display of Prices) (England) Regulations 2010

My Lords, I am not particularly surprised at the views expressed by the noble Earl. To a certain extent, his dismay was echoed by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker. In terms of vending machines, yes, Parliament has spoken and we now need to bring these regulations forward. As to the display of prices, we are in a heads-you-win or tails-you-lose situation with reference to too much or too little detail. I think that the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, said that the tobacco industry has to an extent brought this on itself. Taking on board the analogy given by the noble Earl, I say that our experience shows us that even if you show a very small amount of ankle to tobacco companies, you do not know where it might lead. We cannot take anything for granted in their drive to advertise their products; that is the problem that we face. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Patel, for his support throughout this process of dealing with tobacco and regulation. We take this issue very seriously and we do not regard it as trivial that there are consequences for the vending machine industry and the people who provide vending machines. However, stopping the sale of cigarettes through vending machines is an important measure to stop today’s children becoming tomorrow’s smokers. As well as being easily accessible to children, vending machines also provide temptation for adults. But we think that we are right to prevent access to a known source of tobacco for young people. As the noble Earl and the noble Baroness recognise, alternatives were debated during the passage of the Health Bill. But it was the will of both Houses to make it clear that accepting those amendments would remove the regulation-making powers that would impose restrictions and that they were left with only one option. We know that there will be an impact on the vending machine business. Indeed, I met people from that business before we discussed this matter in the House when the Bill came back to us from another place. We are using the date of 2011 in order for those businesses to have time to prepare, to diversify and to make alternative arrangements. The regulations prohibit only one possible use of vending machines, so operators would not be prevented from thinking about other uses. In fact, vending machines have other products in them. We understand that some tobacco vending machine businesses may have already begun diversifying. We understand that the snack importer, Salysol GB, has launched a range of products in cigarette-sized containers that can be dispensed from tobacco vending machines, as reported in The Publican on 7 January 2010, which is entirely to be welcomed. I hope that we can therefore trust the diversity and entrepreneurship of those businesses. On typeface and point size, we took advice from the RNIB—so we have discussed the point size. We are using four millimetres and seven millimetres for clarity. We want to avoid any doubt about the legal definition. Using a specific size is quite beyond doubt. It may help the Committee if I say that the maximum size of font or typeface on the price list will be seven millimetres, which is roughly 30 point. The size limit on labels is primarily for staff to be able to identify where stock is kept. The four millimetre size, which must therefore be about 12 point, is in keeping with that. We have done mock-ups. Our purpose is to use a typeface which is uniform and to make absolutely sure that lists cannot be used for promoting products. From our mock-ups of the lists, we think that they work. The noble Baroness raised the issue of the health warnings that are on the cigarette packets. There is no intention that the warnings would be used anywhere else but on those packets. She also asked about other countries. Twenty-two other countries have banned cigarettes from vending machines. On price lists, as far as we are aware there are no precedents, so we have to discuss and consult—as we have done—and come up with rules that work. We will then have to see how those work out. Motion agreed.