Constitutional Reform and Governance Bill

I thank hon. Members for their thoughtful contributions and I hope to deal with the points that they have raised. Most of the debate seems to have revolved around amendment 10, but clause 1 lists the parts of the civil service to which the Bill will not apply. That approach was supported by the Joint Committee that considered the draft Constitutional Renewal Bill. Hon. Members have suggested that the approach in our 2004 draft Civil Service Bill was to define the parts of the civil service to which the Bill applied by providing general descriptions and then listing particular inclusions as well as exclusions. My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead) asked whether the Government would continue to try to find the best way of dealing with the matter. The Government have done that on numerous occasions since 2004, which is why we are in our current position. After consideration, it was felt that more frequent amendment of primary legislation would be required if we were to ensure the maintenance of an accurate list. The Bill therefore lists the parts of the civil service to which the provisions do not apply, a move that was supported by the Joint Committee. Concern was expressed about who would and would not be defined as a civil servant. The hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald) said that it would be difficult for civil service commissioners to have to decide, in each case, who was and who was not a civil servant. In all the years during which they have operated, they have never raised that concern; nor have they raised it in the context of the Bill. I understand and am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's concern on behalf of the commissioners, but they have expressed no such concern themselves. I explained the exclusions in our debate on an earlier amendment. However, I can tell the hon. Gentleman again that the civil service, ministerial and non-ministerial Departments, Executive agencies and non-civil servants are not covered. [Interruption.] I am trying to be helpful. The hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) asked what was meant by""civil service of the State"." I can tell him that exactly the same term was used in the Superannuation Act 1972, and no problems have arisen from that.