Armed Forces, Army, Air Force and Naval Discipline Acts (Continuation) Order 2009

My Lords, I am very pleased that there has been broad welcome for the moves that we are making and for the statutory instruments that we are discussing today. I will try to deal with all points that have been raised. The noble Lord, Lord Astor, mentioned the relationship of Parliament with the Armed Forces and the fact that there is a body of law which both authorises them and disciplines them. It is right that we should remind ourselves of that relationship from time to time because we depend so much on the work that they do and we do not always have sufficient opportunity to record our admiration and thanks for that work. The noble Lord also raised some questions about where they stood and went back to the point that we were discussing on Monday about the impact of the Human Rights Act, and in particular the case that was the topic of that question in terms of Article 2. He suggested that perhaps we should use the constitutional renewal Bill to change that situation. I am not sure that that would even be possible were there a problem, but I think that the noble Lord has got to understand that we are still, as I said on Monday, discussing and taking advice on what is the best way forward. We are strongly committed to the protection of the human rights of our Armed Forces and we are extremely worried about the implications of the recent court judgment. We do not want to open the door to routine legal challenges to decisions made by service personal entrusted with the conduct of operations. As I said on Monday, the Chief of the Defence Staff has sent a message to operational commanders. The noble Lord said that that decision was causing serious operational problems, but that should not be the case. As I think anyone who has read the message from the CDS will see—I have arranged for a copy to be placed in the Library—it makes it very clear that we cannot have decisions made in split-second situations ploughed over, in a totally unreal way, many months and possibly years later. We are still considering what we should be doing to take that forward, but we will certainly not allow a situation to develop where commanders cannot take the decisions they need to take. We have said that as clearly as possible and the CDS has said it. I hope that that is reassuring to those who are charged with that significant responsibility. The noble Lord also asked about the renewal situation and whether the 2006 Act will have to be renewed in 2011. That is indeed the case because it is a quinquennial review. I think that much of the work done in recent months to achieve this level of agreement on all of these orders will help make the renewal process that much easier, because so much work has already been done. I pay tribute to all those who have been working on the many statutory instruments that have arisen as a consequence of the changes in the 2006 Act. It is a formidable task and they deserve recognition for it. The noble Lord, Lord Lee, mentioned a specific point—while welcoming all the updating, he asked a question about the Royal Navy. I am told that the enlistment regulations do not require all recruits to swear an oath of allegiance, but the services’ intention is that in future all newly enlisted people will do so, and the Royal Navy is content with that change. It will not be a retrospective change, but it will come across the board in the future. The noble Lord also asked about the situation with commanding officers and whether they will be kept informed as has been suggested. In fact, the order requires that the commanding officer be informed. So I can repeat the reassurance given when the legislation was initially going through Parliament. As for parts of the order coming into effect at different times, it is true that Article 5 will come into effect at a different time. However, one early provision allows procedural steps to be taken in advance to ensure that everything moves as smoothly as possible later. The other point raised concerned the manual, which both the noble Lords, Lord Astor and Lord Lee, asked about. It is not available yet. Because these regulations do not come into force completely until the end of October, the manual is still being drafted in close consultation with the services. It is important that that is the case and that it is as user-friendly as possible. The noble Lord, Lord Lee, suggested that there could be a slimmed-down version. I am not sure whether that is appropriate but I am sure that it will be possible to look at it and move towards it if at all possible. Finally, the whole intention behind all the consultations and the time taken is to ensure that the new system is implemented as smoothly as possible. It is helpful that we are discussing these orders this evening so that there can be even more time to ensure that everything moves smoothly. I thank noble Lords for their support. Motion agreed.