Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am grateful to the two speakers; it is helpful to have their views and responses on the record. I cannot remember whether the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, said that it would be "irresponsible"—but that is what she meant—to make the operation of the Bill unworkable but I am dealing with only one clause. I do, indeed, intend to make it unworkable—that is absolutely the objective—but only the clause, not the whole Bill. I would say to the noble Baroness that it is not tit for tat. The provisions in the amendment are to illustrate the reasons for our opposition to the clause. If there was any tit for tat around this, it came from the Local Government Association. It was quite clear when it proposed an amendment—which was not one that I or my colleagues wished to pursue—that if this provision were to apply to local authorities, it should apply to other authorities as well. It was a reaction to that. It was not a case of, "We think it is a good thing and let us extend it". I recall its briefing supporting the proposed amendment very well. As to the issue of a new Act of Parliament, I am not the first to propose this. The noble Viscount, Lord Astor, and the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, tabled an amendment proposing that the Bill being promoted by my noble friend Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay on taxation of Members of this House, ""shall not come into force until an Act of Parliament has been passed imposing equivalent requirements to those contained in this Act upon members of the House of Commons"." So there is not the amount of novelty in my amendment that might have been apparent. It is suggested that Clause 16 is about issues and not individuals. The Minister said that there would be "no right of access", I think is the term she used, for members of the public to an officer. But if it is only about issues, it is for the overview and scrutiny committee, surely, to decide which officers to call. If the clause is about only the senior officers being required within the category, it should say so. Nor is the clause about evidence; calling to account is qualitatively different from giving evidence. Picking up on the points in my amendment, the Minister assures us that there has been consultation on the detail but, given her comments about the guidance that has been issued and hoping that there will be consultation on the draft guidance, I assume that there has not been consultation on the detail to the extent that I anticipated. The reference in my amendment to either House of Parliament is not intended to be a right for members of the public; it is a right for Select Committees, which is quite different. Clause 16 is not about issues; it is about calling an officer, identified by name or description, to account at a public meeting. This is a matter of principle and I wish to test the opinion of the House. Division on Amendment 170A Contents 34; Not-Contents 60. Amendment 170A disagreed. Amendment 170B not moved.