Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am very tempted to call a vote after that. With great respect to the Minister, he did not answer the local questions I asked him and about which I thought he would have local knowledge. Why will parents of children in Oakenshaw not receive from their own council in Bradford information about their local school, and about how to become governors of the school that their children attend, and that almost all children in Oakenshaw attend? That is the basic question. When the Minister suggests that what is required is an efficient system, who is the efficiency on behalf of? Is it the internal efficiency of the organisation of the local authority, or is it the efficiency of the system that provides the information required by people in Oakenshaw or wherever it happens to be? With great respect to Ministers generally, it seems to me that there are times when they should read the briefings they are given, apply some common sense to them and say, "No, this is wrong". The answer that the Minister has just read out is ridiculous. I am sorry to say that but I believe that it is. The noble Lord, Lord Graham, mentioned London. I accept that London is a different case but one or two of the other big conurbations may also be different cases, particularly Greater Manchester. The place that everyone thinks of as Manchester is divided into different councils, in the same way that London is, although it has nothing like as many as London. However, everyone thinks of Trafford, Salford and Manchester as just Manchester, unless they happen to live there and know differently. Therefore, I agree that there are problems. Perhaps I may go through one or two things that the Minister said. He said that our proposal is not necessarily reasonable or practical. I am not in favour of doing anything that is not necessarily reasonable or practical. He also said that not "all conceivable information" can be given. I am not suggesting that it should be all conceivable information; I am suggesting that the information given should be the sensible information that most people who live in a particular place require. He said that we do not want duplication where it is not necessary. I agree entirely with the Minister. However, the whole purpose of the amendments is to assert that in some cases it will be necessary to make councils do what the Government want them to do under Chapter 1 of the Bill—that is, to provide sensible information. He suggested that councils should have to promote the information to all their own local people. However, boundaries do not respect things such as a council’s "own local people"; they cross community boundaries and the catchment areas of hospitals and schools. It does not seem right to promote the information to your own local people but not to other people who use your facilities. The Minister said that the information should relate to a geographical area. I agree. Later in the Bill, when we talk about the results of the sub-national review and multi-area agreements and even economic prosperity boards, the Government will tell us that what matters is not the precise boundaries of a particular local authority but the economic geography of the area—that is what people keep calling it—the area which is economically and geographically sensible because it is a unit. It may be the city region or in other areas it may be something different. The Government would no doubt argue that Workington, Whitehaven and perhaps Barrow in West Cumbria are part and parcel of the same economic geographical area, and I would agree. They use one argument there, yet here they say that geographical areas have to be the boundaries of local authorities. However, in many areas those boundaries are quite arbitrary: some are historically arbitrary and some are arbitrary in modern terms, but they are arbitrary. Finally, the Minister used the words "genuine connection". There is nothing more genuine in terms of a connection than the hospital that you always go to, whether for an appointment or when the ambulance turns up. When the ambulance men ask, "Where do you want to go?", you reply, "That hospital", because that is where everyone in the area goes. There is nothing more genuine than the school that all the children in a village or suburb attend. With regard to the concept of connected authorities in the Bill, I can only refer to the authority of which I am a member. When Airedale General Hospital wanted to put in a bid to become a foundation trust—I do not know how far that bid has got or how far it is going—it came to Pendle council over the border in Lancashire and said, "We recognise that traditionally a third of the people in Pendle come to us rather than go to Burnley. We recognise that the East Lancashire Primary Care Trust has had a contract with Airedale for many years in order to pay for these patients. We would like Pendle to have representation on the primary care trust board". There cannot be anything more "connected" than that in the Government’s concept of the word. There will be direct connectivity with representation from one authority over the border in a hospital in a different authority. The Government say that they cannot accept most of the amendments that we put forward. They say that they understand them and, although they may not agree, they recognise that there is a sensible case to be made. However, in this case, I think that the Government are being resistant and obdurate, and I do not understand why. To me, it is common sense that this option should be written into the Bill. As I said, I am extremely tempted to test the opinion of the House. However, I shall not do so because this Bill has a lot of track to go down yet. It has to go to the House of Commons, and the Government have a lot of time to continue to think about this matter and to put something sensible into the Bill. I hope that they will do that as the Bill progresses through its further stages in this House and the House of Commons. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 9 withdrawn. Amendments 9A and 10 not moved.