Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 (Continuance in force of sections 1 to 9) Order 2009

My Lords, I speak as a member of, although not on behalf of, the Joint Committee on Human Rights. Having listened to the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, all I can say is that our committee is very sorry that she is not still a member, as her contribution was incredibly important. I had written in my notes about the limit of time and the fact that somebody could be held in a one-room flat in Ealing for 16 hours with curtailment on whom he sees outside and what he is allowed to do. The noble Baroness, Lady Stern, very reasonably and with great impact, filled out the details of what a control order means to the controlee. It is as near imprisonment without trial as it is possible to get. Our final paragraph in the Joint Committee on Human Rights report states: ""As in previous years, we therefore have very serious reservations about the renewal of the control order regime unless the Government is prepared to introduce the safeguards we have identified as necessary to render it human rights compatible. Without those safeguards, the use of control orders will continue to give rise to unnecessary breaches of individuals’ rights to liberty and due process"." The liberty issue has been completely and utterly shown by the noble Baroness, Lady Stern. The due process issue is the fact that the persons are not allowed to see the evidence against them. We took the view that it is only just that someone who has been accused of something should be able to see the evidence against them, although I accept that it may have to be slightly edited. Our other concern was on intercept evidence. Why, as my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones said, has it taken such a long time to make a decision? The Government seem to be acting like Fabius Maximus the Cunctator—the delayer. I hope that they are as successful as he was. The other extremely unpleasant fact is that these people can be held for a limitless time. That cannot be right under any circumstances. People are held in pretty unsavoury conditions, which certainly lead to mental health problems. They are held without hearing the evidence against them and they can be held for an interminable time. That is completely unsatisfactory and it goes against the grain of all our ancient liberties and constitution. It should be, and can be, rectified. We accepted that the Government should publish the report of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, a month before renewal to allow for information to be put in the public domain and for a better debate to take place. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller, raised the issue of people who absconded—four or five of them, I think. They just went absent and we heard no more about them. Have they gone back to play with the ungodly? Have they gone back to doing things of which they were suspected, or have they just vanished? If they can just vanish without any further damage, they were not really doing very much damage; otherwise, they should have been prosecuted. Finally, they must, must, must be prosecuted. If I were my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones, I would have said to Her Majesty’s Government, "This time you can get it, but not next time". Next time I would support an amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, or even move one myself, that the regime should not be renewed, because it is unsatisfactory, it is against our traditions and the Government are being idle in allowing it to carry on.