Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill [HL]

My Lords, I was not going to go into any great detail on that. Perhaps I may get back to be noble Lord in writing on that one, because I am trying to whisk through rather quickly. I probably have something written here, but I have been rather sifting through. Is it discriminatory to require newcomers to support themselves while they have limited leave to remain here? They need to spend only one year as a probationary citizen before becoming eligible for citizenship. I emphasise again that those granted refugee status will be eligible for benefits as soon as they are granted that status. The noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, and the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, talked about active citizenship and the impact on volunteering. We are very aware of the need to talk to volunteer groups—I touched on that before. That is an important area that we need to clarify a little more. I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Morris, who asked about free healthcare. The proposals do not affect migrants’ access to healthcare. Access to free healthcare is not directly linked to particular immigration categories; it is based on ordinary residence in the UK, so they will get it. The noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, asked about earned citizenship and the impact of the new system on access to benefits for migrants who are already here with leave. Under our proposals, the earliest that a person on the work route to citizenship will be able to qualify for full access to benefits will be six years. For those on the family route, it will be three years. We believe that it is right that full access to benefits should be withheld until a migrant has earned the right to British citizenship, which is what our proposals achieve. I will clarify the position on probationary citizenship. It is a further period of temporary leave, and it is right that someone should have full access to benefits only once they have completed the journey to citizenship, but I should make it clear that refugees will continue to have access as soon as they are granted that status. We believe that that is reasonable. The noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, mentioned English and asked what the requirement means. Migrants meet the English requirement by completing an ESOL—English for Speakers of Other Languages—course and demonstrating progression from one ESOL level to the next. Those on ESOL entry level 3 or above take the life-in-the-UK test. I welcome the House’s quiet assent to the Bill’s provisions on the nationality aspect of British servicemen and their children. Indeed, it is a bit of a pleasure to get support from the whole House, if only on one of the clauses. A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Smith of Clifton, Lord Patten and Lord Sheikh, spoke very eloquently about the common travel area. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, supports this. All I would say is that we are not abolishing it. We have made clear the value that we attach to the political, economic and social benefits of the common travel area. The noble Lord, Lord Smith of Clifton, felt that we were abolishing it, but we are definitely not doing so. We have reviewed, and we will keep under review, the practical operation of the common travel area to ensure that we maximise the protections there. We have had long debates with Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland; clearly, I have to be careful what I call it. I might once have referred to Great Britain rather than the United Kingdom, but as I have actually served on the border in that part of the United Kingdom I am very well aware of how it is part of our nation. There was mention of the difficulty of showing a Lords’ pass to get across the border and the fact that it did not work. When I visited a prison to look at extremism and radicalisation in prisons, I found that a Lords’ pass would not get me in there either. One of the warders said, ““I think we’ve got a few of you in here, however, my Lord””, so I discovered that they had recognised it. Someone mentioned that there is a difference between being in Schengen and out of Schengen. There is no doubt at all—indeed, it is quite clear to us—that Ireland is being used, particularly in serious crime and trafficking, as an access route into the rest of the United Kingdom. We cannot aim to have an impregnable defence. I go back to that harness made of ropes and knots; we have to do this a bit at a time, and we have to do what is achievable. This is achievable, and we are doing it. We are well aware of the sensitivities. When people travel from Northern Ireland to this country, a lot of airlines already ask for some form of visual ID. It is a question of exactly what that is. We have for years used the intelligence base to look for things when people and traffic come from Northern Ireland. Indeed, we used it extremely successfully in the 1980s, so it is not new to us. It can make all of us, including those in Ireland, safer because people will not try to come in through that route. A number of noble Lords were very interested in the restriction on studies. The provision in the Bill is a relatively limited measure. It ensures that a student who has been sponsored by one institution when they enter to study must seek permission if they wish to change their institution and sponsor. The noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, pointed out very clearly that education has been used by a lot of people as a way of getting into this country. It is not too much to ask the university, other educational establishments and the people involved to do this. I am aware that there are other, smaller issues. We should perhaps deal with them in Committee. For example, clearly if someone comes to study architecture or medicine, the course will last longer than the maximum four years’ leave granted. We are committed to keeping the performance of sponsoring education bodies under review. We will do that as it goes on. If the system is working well and we feel that there needs to be a change, something can be done. Certainly it is a change that I would have hoped would be made in the future. We can talk later in more detail on other issues relating to studies. I was grateful for the very balanced remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick. Again, we should perhaps discuss costs in Committee. Clause 50 relates to judicial review. I am always wary of calling myself a simple sailor but not when it comes to raising my head above the parapet among all the judges on this. I was taught by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, that there are superior and inferior judges but as far as I am concerned, if you are in court and there is a judge there, he is a judge. Clearly there is a lot of difference between all these. There are a lot of implications that need to be looked at in detail. What is quite clear is that the senior judiciary are very supportive of the clause and the supporting legislation. The responses of the president of the Queen’s Bench, the Master of the Rolls, the Senior President of Tribunals and others to the consultation on immigration appeals are available on the UK Border Agency’s website. We believe that this provision will assist, if an Asylum and Immigration Tribunal case is transferred, but I understand the complexities of the other questions asked not just by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd, but also the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss. I am glad to say that the noble and learned Baroness had a slightly different view; it was nice to feel that there was a bit of support for it. The complexities will have to be addressed in Committee and there will need to be further discussion on the key points mentioned. I have pages and pages of briefing on Clause 50 but I will not deal with it now as I think we ought to do that in Committee. Many noble Lords were very interested in Clause 51, on children. I was very grateful to the noble Viscount, Lord Bridgeman, for thanking us for getting this clause into the Bill. I am rather proud that we did. The noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, pointed out that a lot of it was the work of the party opposite; even so, it is right and good that it should be in there. I am very aware that a number of good questions still need to be answered. We need very clear guidance and training for all our people. I hope that everyone in the House agrees that it is a huge step forward. I thank the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for his very fulsome praise of what we have invested in children over the past few years. I think it is impressive. We would be very happy to facilitate a meeting between the UKBA’s children’s champion and the noble Earl or anyone else. My officials will seek to arrange that before Clause 51 is discussed in Committee, if it would help. Trafficking of children is a most appalling thing, and we are very committed to ensuring that we become a hostile environment for it. During the passage of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004 the criminalisation of trafficking for non-sexual exploitation, including of children, was discussed and legislated for. I believe that this is an area where we can have even more focus; it is very important. We have tried very hard, but there are still things that can be done, and that will merit further discussion in Committee. On Clause 53, the noble Lords, Lord Wallace and Lord Patten, asked whether the Bill covers all six parts of the United Kingdom. Clause 53, on extent, sets out that, as reserved matters, immigration, customs and nationality will apply to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and that the same provisions may be applied to the Crown dependencies—the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands—by Order in Council. I hope that that answers that specific question. The noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, asked about training officers in Scotland. HMRC and immigration officers in Scotland are well used to working with Scots law and receive appropriate training on the workings of the Scottish legal system. I was appalled to hear that we have not done proper consultation. I apologise for that and I will go and kick someone later on. Having been—well, not the victim—luckily part of the Scottish education system and having received the tawse for the first time at the age of five for my mother’s inappropriate doing of the cross-stitch on some sewing done at home, which was spotted, I know exactly how harsh things can be up there at times. There was a lot of mention of Zimbabwe, which, clearly, is very important, although not really, I feel, a part of what we are discussing now. It is well worthy of discussion and it is a great worry. The Prime Minister will come back soon with the answer that he said he would, which is all I can say on that matter. The noble Lord, Lord Patten, mentioned the Olympics. There has been a lot of talk about the Olympics. We have done a huge amount of work and now have a fully costed plan, which will go to the NSID Cabinet committee in the next few weeks. We are well ahead of any other nation at this stage, half way between getting the bid and doing the event. It fits in and slots in well with our CONTEST strategy. We are still within the £600 million, which will be hard work but we will manage it. We are well placed on that. It is not really a part of this Bill, but I throw that in as an aside. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions at this Second Reading.