Climate Change Bill [HL]

My Lords, I have been caught in some rather devastating crossfire. After all, the noble Baroness, Lady Young, is upbraiding the Government because they seem to have made up their mind, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is upbraiding the Government because they have not made up their mind. It is difficult for me to respond to that duality, except to say that it will not do to argue that Governments are only about good ideas and good intentions. Governments are certainly about good ideas and goods intentions—this Government in particular are full of both—but we are responsible in Parliament for good legislation. We are discussing not some generalised formula for the nation this evening but what we put into law. I hope, indeed beg, the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Taylor, not to press their amendments because they both have this element in common—they would put into legislation and make certain something about which the Government are not definitive at present and that would require considerable consultation. It is easy for noble Lords to pluck out of the air one article in a newspaper from however esteemed the source might prove to be, but it will not do for idle reference to be made to the top three FTSE 250 companies, or whatever. The Government cannot work on the basis of surmising these terms; they must have some precision about who is to be involved in this. I think the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, would certainly accept that his noble friend the Duke of Montrose was concerned about this issue and challenged me first—probably, if I read his interjection accurately, on where the line would be drawn. Corporate reporting certainly involves a burden, and I am quite sure that the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, was concerned that the burdens on companies of a certain size might be excessive and might not provide sufficient benefit, consequent upon reporting, which the Government seek. We are not being definitive about that at this stage. We are saying that we must have provision for reporting and the opportunity to ensure that we can take this argument a stage further and make it definitive. I am grateful to both noble Lords for tabling amendments that are constructively expressed, but the Government are not being definitive at this stage. We need to carry out extensive consultation before we can be definitive, which is why it should be recognised that the Government have amendments in place to create the capacity to act effectively. We are not in a position to be definitive in primary legislation about just where that categorisation takes place or how the reporting should be conducted.