Counter-Terrorism Bill

My Lords, as the noble Lord who introduced the Powers of Entry Bill after some 15 years’ work, it behoves me to intervene. I did not wish to do so in this Bill, but by some strange act of cunning, new powers of entry have suddenly appeared to go with the 1,137 powers of entry that have so far been identified. I thought that I had reached an agreement with the noble Lord, Lord West, that this Bill, which is passing through the House with great support, would not push this matter to the limit, but that jointly with the Home Office we would sit down and identify all the Bills that give powers of entry for an official to go into a person’s premises and search, seize and effectively spy without a warrant. I have a problem in that I do not want to oppose the Bill, but the moral feeling within me says that I cannot possibly support yet another power of entry without warrant without going through the process that I thought we had agreed with the noble Lord, Lord West. I ought to declare an interest because with the help of the Home Office, we have set up a mixed public and private Bill team that is gradually identifying more and more powers of entry from different ministries. Responses to the questions I have asked over time reveal that the problem is that government departments do not know what their powers of entry are. The Home Office team, a good one, is trying to find them out. I spoke to a member of the team the day before yesterday to say that I was going to be almost forced to intervene in this matter, and he said that the team was getting on but was still failing to get responses from various government departments about what those powers of entry are. I shall not repeat the concept of the Bill or its details, but I refer noble Lords to the enormous schedule that was produced jointly with the Government. All we said was that there should be a code of conduct when people seek to go into people’s premises, and that they should not go in without a warrant or a court order, except by agreement and during certain periods of the day. It pleases me much that the President of the Board of Trade is in his place because he will be well aware that the original council of trade became the Board of Trade. In 1918, when there were certain rules for co-operation and regulation, these matters were discussed. In 1702, the Bishop of London became a member of the council of trade; he was later replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. I am proposing to introduce a new Bill to reintroduce the Board of Trade because it had within it all His—or Her—Majesty’s Secretaries of State, members of the Privy Council and others. When the Minister replies, will he urge all the Secretaries of State to whom I have addressed questions over the years to produce, as a matter of urgency, the schedules giving their departments’ powers of entry because surely they should know what their powers of entry are. I feel much more relaxed knowing that the President of the Board of Trade is in this House. He is the supreme arbiter and has the right to call upon those people to deliver the information we require. However, until that happens, I am obliged, with great regret, to support the amendment moved by my noble friend.