Police Appeals Tribunals Rules 2008

I, too, thank the Minister for introducing the instruments and I welcome him to what is probably his first question and answer session on police matters. I begin by declaring an interest as a former chair for eight years of a police authority, whose complaints committee I also chaired. I am also vice-chair of the Association of Police Authorities. About 12 years ago, when I was in the middle of a serious and difficult complaint procedure in my county, I asked for precisely what we have before us today, so I am grateful to all those who have taken part in working through these complex problems and who have come up with what I think is a good way forward. Police officers want and need a better system; they deserve it. These matters affect them and their families tremendously. When police officers are subject to disciplinary procedure, it is not just the officer who has to go through the terrible difficulties surrounding it. Whether in the end they are found guilty or declared innocent, the process itself affects them. I have seen the dreadful effect that it has had on a number of police officers. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, said, fortunately this will apply only to a few police officers; indeed, the gross misconduct procedures will, thankfully, apply to a tiny minority in the totality of policing. A single code for disciplinary arrangements is therefore long overdue. The degrees of misconduct have been well highlighted and should be recognised, but what is important is, as the noble Baroness said, how those procedures will be implemented. The time limits on the process are crucial. Months can go by. That is one of the most difficult challenges for everyone concerned. Anything that can bring down the time limits, certainly for simple and straightforward matters, is valuable. These issues should be dealt with at the lowest possible level. I think that a basic command unit commander would be absolutely ideal. However, I am happy to note that an independent member will sit on the gross misconduct panel, so we go from one extreme to the other. The presence of an independent person would have been helpful in the difficult case in which I was involved. Moving from blame and punishment to development and improvement certainly is the way forward and I commend it. The cost of prolonged inquiries is enormous, as I found out to our cost, because the money comes out of the finite police authority budget. I welcome the fact that all the organisations that have a stake—although I hate that word—in policing have done an excellent job in bringing forward these proposals. It cannot have been easy. Having been a member of the PNB and the PAB and knowing how these things operate, I am well aware of the difficulties in trying to sort out the problems. I have one or two fairly straightforward questions for the Minister. How will the time limits be adhered to? We know that they are down, but how will the regulations be implemented in the same way across all forces? How will that be monitored? Will Parliament be told how the regulations are being used and how often they are used? I echo the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, about training. I was concerned about this. How will training in these new methods be delivered? It will be significant. We must understand how difficult the culture shift will be for the service. All police officers know their disciplinary regulations. Apparently we are moving to a softer touch, but it will not be a soft touch; it will still be a severe test. It will be interesting to see how it will be delivered. We very much support the Police Appeals Tribunals Rules. They are very sensible; we perfectly accept that. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, suggested, the police are subject to personal restrictions of a type not known certainly to Members of your Lordships’ House or to general members of the public. Police officers are on duty all the time. My late former father-in-law was a chief inspector of police and one of the first things that he told me 30 or 40 years ago was that he was always on duty. He felt that he had a responsibility to the community all the time. Indeed, most police officers feel that. You do not have to have a senior role in the police to feel that you have a responsibility to the community off duty as well as on duty. Finally, PCSOs were discussed in the other place. They are not subject to the same disciplinary procedures and arrangements but, as we move towards including them more formally in the policing structure, we will have to think about those procedures and arrangements. I do not think that there is an answer today, but although PCSOs are classed as civilians when difficulties arise, they are under the direction and control of the chief constable. They appear to the public as police officers, so perhaps the disciplinary arrangements should be looked at to see how they can apply to PCSOs. Thankfully, we are not talking about large numbers. The police do an absolutely magnificent job in the main. Those who spoil what the police do by not behaving properly need to be weeded out. All the arrangements that are now being put into place will do that and I commend the instruments.