Manchester City Council Bill [Lords](By Order)

I rise to speak with some sadness, because although I agree with my hon. Friends about 90 per cent. of what we are discussing, I cannot agree with what they have said today. My hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East (Mr. Ellwood) said that it would be democratic to pass the motion, I believe that it is also democratic to oppose it. I feel that these Bills must be stopped, for a simple reason. As was made clear a moment ago, if a Bill affecting a particular area is enacted, people will move and the problem will be passed on. I am not at all convinced that the county, district and unitary councils that have adopted these measures so far have seen the major change that they expected to see. Let me issue a challenge. All those other towns, including London and towns in Northern Ireland, have highly competent CCTV systems, which they ought to use to collect evidence in order to demonstrate whether the measures are making a difference. According to evidence presented in another place, Bournemouth said that although its system was good, it did not know whether that could be done. Of course Bournemouth's system may need to be updated, but I can assure the House that, without a shadow of doubt, London and Northern Ireland—and, I think, Newcastle, of which I have a little experience—have extremely good systems, which would certainly be able to provide clear evidence. The problem is that we are not all discussing the same Bill. We are discussing different Bills and different problems, and each Bill is trying to achieve a slightly different aim. That is fine as far as it goes, but in the long run it cannot be right. What we need—dare I say, as a Tory—is standardisation: each licence, whether it costs £600-odd in Manchester or the £12.25 paid by a pedlar, must be standardised. I am pleased that the Government are to undertake sensible research, which I think should be done as quickly but also, as the Minister said, as diligently as possible. What worries me slightly is that I think the Minister said—I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong—that he wants Durham university to deliver the results of that research by August.