Legislative Reform (Health and Safety Executive) Order 2008

The Grand Committee will be extremely grateful to the Minister for introducing this non-contentious order in his usual careful way. It is, as he said, laid under the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act 2006, which we on this side of the Committee believe is not used nearly enough. Plenty of other subjects should have the attention of the Government, because regulations were laid down many years ago and today give the distinct impression of being overkill. Today's debate is a classic example because an awful lot of water has flowed under the bridge since 1974, when the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act was introduced. That it was necessary in the first place is evidenced by the reduction in accidents at work since then, due partially to the efforts of employers and employees, but mostly, I believe, by the attention to detail of the members and staff of the executive. It was a great treat the other evening to meet the new chief executive of the new body. Some of that water has been the evolution of corporate governance. I do not believe that, if we were enacting the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act today, we would dream of setting up two non-departmental public bodies to do the job of imposing what the Explanatory Memorandum calls, "““particular duties in specific circumstances and sectors, and also health and safety regulations made under the Act””." The commission, which this order abolishes, was established as the principal body in the regulation of health and safety at work in Great Britain. The executive, on the other hand, was what the Minister has just called the operative arm which, along with its staff, advises and assists the commission in its functions and has specific responsibility, along with the environmental health officers, for enforcement and prosecution. It is notable, however, that the commission has never had the authority to direct the executive in the execution of its duty. The two non-departmental public bodies thus operated at arm’s length. There is absolutely no reason in this day and age why a single body should not do both jobs. When this proposal hit the floor, it did so running. I note that during the consultation period there were only questions of detail on the composition of the new body. The main areas of concern were the number of members on the board, whether it should consist entirely of non-executive members, and who should be consulted before their appointment. I observe that the Government have stuck to their original intentions with one notable exception—they have decided to increase their originally proposed board from a chairman and nine members to a chairman and 11 members. The Minister well knows my views about numbers of board members because we had a discussion the other day about the size of the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission, when I said that such boards should be as small as possible, so I hope that a chairman and 11 members fulfil that criterion. Time will tell, but I must ask the Minister whether there is provision in this order or in the Health and Safety at Work Act to increase, or I hope to decrease, the size of the board. It is my hope too that the revamped executive will be able to do something about the appalling state this nation has got itself into regarding protection of the individual, which has gone way over the top. This is a subject dear to my heart, as I said in a debate responded to by the Minister’s predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath. For schools to stop small boys playing conkers, which is after all a traditional playground activity, or to prevent children climbing trees, will do nothing to make them responsible and careful adults. It is an absolute disgrace that one school cancelled its annual Guy Fawkes bonfire party last year because children might get too close to the bonfire and become scorched, or at worst burnt. Although I accept that teachers have a duty of care, I cannot accept that if a child is told not to do something and then goes ahead and does it, it is necessarily the teacher’s fault, or that if an employer holds a health and safety meeting of his staff and one of them ignores it, it is automatically the employer's fault. The trouble is that over the last 30 years a compensation culture has grown up in this country which was never intended by Governments of either complexion. I can illustrate this by relating a story about my wife, who broke her leg while on holiday in Sri Lanka by slipping down some steps and falling awkwardly. On her return, to her horror, the first friend who came to see her asked almost immediately whom she was going to sue. Her answer was, of course, no one, as the accident was caused through her own admitted carelessness. It is my belief that the ““no win, no fee”” agreements have got completely out of hand, and that the courts have been unduly lenient. It is one thing if someone damages their back by slipping on a wet floor at work when there is no warning notice—the subject of a television commercial that is doing the rounds—but quite another if an accident happens due to pure carelessness. The fact that a tree happens to be in a playground and a climbing child falls and breaks an arm, a leg or a collarbone is not to my mind an immediate reason to sue the school. I discovered another version of trying it on when I had the honour to be a junior Minister in the Northern Ireland Office and there was a spate of people claiming to have ankle injuries because of uneven flagstones in Belfast. We conducted a little survey and discovered that some people claimed to have tripped over paving slabs several times—the same paving slabs that had been relevelled—a few weeks apart. They were the same people! The Secretary of State soon put a stop to that scam. It is the duty of us all to find a way that enables the genuine cases to get compensation while ensuring that those who made the main contribution to the accident get nothing. The ““no win, no fee”” legislation will then work as intended, which is a scenario much to be desired. That said, I believe that the Health and Safety Executive has done a good job over the years, notwithstanding that it is often blamed for things that are nothing to do with its operations. The legislation handed down to it by the commission, and its visits to warn firms and establishments of dangers that might be impending, have proved the right approach, so I have no doubt that the new executive will be able to continue these operations and do its bit to make Britain a still safer place in which to work.