Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Investigations in England, Wales and Northern Ireland: Code of Practice) Order 2008

I apologise to the noble Lord but my curiosity has been aroused this afternoon. I am very grateful to my noble friend who has just spoken. Introductory paragraph (2) of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (Cash Searches: Code of Practice) Order 2008, in relation to the powers of the Secretary of State, refers to, "““the draft by the Scottish Ministers””," and so on. Introductory paragraph (1) deals with the exercise of the code of practice in England, Wales and Northern Ireland by constables and accredited financial investigators. My question is similar to that put forward by my noble friend Lady Hanham: can the Minister inform me, or write to me, about the draft revised code of practice by Scottish Ministers or other persons? I am interested in whether accredited financial investigators on both sides of the border will have similar powers. The second part of the order deals with cash searches. Is the object of the search cash or records? I am sure that the Minister will be aware that the records may be outwith Scotland or even the United Kingdom. Introductory paragraph (1) refers to constables, and that is fine. I had an experience in my office out in the boondocks in Scotland when two gentlemen in plain clothes turned up and said that they had powers to do this and that. They were not accompanied by the police but they produced warrants or cards that I had never seen before. They had, in fact, come from the local authority. I do not know whether I was supposed to recognise these gentlemen’s authority but, had I objected, I wonder what would have happened. That is why I hope the Minister will reassure me that when the searches take place for cash or records of cash, their subject will at least have some idea of why they are taking place. I am sure that the Minister will explain that crime has tentacles and that huge sums of money may be involved, spread perhaps outwith Scotland—or firth, as we say in Scotland. I would be grateful if the Minister will inform me about the draft of the revised code in Scotland. These searches can certainly cause great worry to small concerns, as I have explained. Will the Minister enlighten me as to the powers of the investigators when a visit is paid under introductory paragraphs (1) or (2) of the order? Does the person the subject of the searches have any rights? I seem to recall that in the period of the previous Government there were some particularly difficult situations concerning orders which had to be signed by Ministers. At least two Ministers were unable to make any contact and were virtually kept in purdah. I am curious to know what rights an individual has when someone turns up and says, ““We believe there has been a crime; we believe there is cash; we believe there are records available here””. There may be good reasons for the search but what happens if someone turns up in plain clothes saying, ““We have this particular reference, this particular authority””, and there is no reason why you should recognise it? If it was a constable, the mind of the retail subject of the investigation would be put at rest. I am afraid my cynical mind goes abroad. Thirty years ago we spent three weeks in an Italian resort where we found a bunch of armed gentlemen—the tax police. They apparently had powers to go armed into one’s office and demand to see one’s records. I do not believe that that will be the case, certainly not in Scotland and certainly not in my case. Perhaps the powers might be needed but I would be grateful if the Minister could reassure me, particularly about introductory paragraph (2), because Scotland is where I live and it might affect me. I have no hesitation in saying that I am member of the Chartered Accountants of Scotland. That is worth more even than the reputation of your Lordships’ House. I would certainly wish to be onside, but who is the referee? We do not want gentlemen turning up and saying, ““Cough up those papers. I have a bit of paper here; I have a reference””. The House of Lords identity pass that I have in my pocket has caused considerable panic in some areas. But if the Minister could reassure me about introductory paragraph (2), I would be very grateful. I apologise to my noble friend.