Cheshire (Structural Changes) Order 2008

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, reminded us that this is as much about geographical spread as optimal numbers. However, it is also about the realities of people’s loyalties; their understanding of where they belong and with whom they identify. The noble Baroness also said that this was not a split into two, but that is not the perception of those who live in Cheshire, which I do not. But I have listened with great respect to those Peers from Cheshire who have spoken and, certainly from the correspondence that I have received, I am very clear that people see their county being dismembered for research which may or may not be valid but which certainly does not take into account the reality, as people see it, on the ground. In her opening statement the Minister made it clear that the forces which are leading the Government to choose the two unitary authorities revolve around affinity to the large cities of Liverpool and Manchester, to the west and to the east respectively. As the right reverend Prelate said, the people of Cheshire do not see themselves as outlying citizens of city areas. If I lived in Cheshire, which my family did at one time—my mother’s family—and still do, I would be outraged at the idea that the county should be seen as something merely to support the vibrant economies, which certainly they are, of Liverpool and Manchester. It is a disgrace that Cheshire can be designated to the outlying areas of these two great cities. I agree that brevity is very important on this occasion. I wish to make it very clear, if I have not already, that I very much support my noble friend Lord Wade.