Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2008

This has become an annual ritual. For about eight years I have welcomed these orders for these two training boards because we believe that the concept of the levy grant was a good one that has resulted in very considerable benefits to the two industries. It is slightly amusing that the Minister indicated that the Government were currently pleased with the how the scheme was working and that it had been extended to the film industry in December 2007—and that industry voted in favour of having a levy grant system. There is a slightly plaintive paragraph in the impact assessments. Paragraph 9 in both reads: "““Ministers have acknowledged that to insist on non-statutory arrangements is unrealistic and have agreed to retain a statutory ITB subject to regular review””." I think that there may be a touch of the Leitch agenda in the slight change in mood, which is not reflected in the impact assessment. Nevertheless, the system has worked very well. For the CITB, the Minister quoted a figure of £1.90 for every £1 invested, and for the Engineering Construction Industry Training Board, she quoted £2.11, whereas the impact assessment quotes £2.22—a slight increase on her figure, although I am not sure that it really matters. There is some indication of the mountain that we have to climb in terms of skills. I note from the impact assessment that there are in the region of 75,000 to 80,000 employers in the construction industry, yet only 16,000 employers have apprentices. Of those 16,000, 14,600 are small and medium-sized businesses and probably have one or two apprentices at most. Therefore, we have to climb a huge mountain if we are to approach the aspiration of world-class skills held by the Government and the noble Lord, Lord Leitch. As I said, we very much welcome the orders. As the Minister indicated, it is interesting to see the degree to which the Construction Industry Training Board is now running construction skills. I have had quite a lot to do with some of its programmes and I very much welcome what it is doing with the various programmes that it is getting up and running. I have three questions for the Minister, although they may overlap. How do these training arrangements fit into Train to Gain? Do the two industries have to pay twice? They have to pay by levy for training schemes, yet if they were not paying by levy, Train to Gain would give them a lot of money to train their employees. Will we now see some of these firms being reluctant to participate in the levy grant system because they will be receiving the money from Train to Gain? My other question concerns apprenticeship arrangements. How far do the Government’s new plans for apprenticeships overlap with the arrangements that are already in place under the industry training board? The Government are introducing a number of inducements to employers to take up apprentices. Again, is there an overlap? Will this industry, which is paying the levy grant system, pay twice?