Appointment of the Comptroller and Auditor General

My hon. Friend makes an important and valuable point. I shall shortly turn to the issue of the independence of the CAG. As part of the overall process, the chairmanship of the Public Accounts Committee is rightly in the hands of a member of the Opposition. I do not believe that there is any desire on any side to change that. I am happy to reaffirm what my hon. Friend said. The National Audit Office and the CAG can identify the worst examples of lack of economy, inefficiency and ineffectiveness in the public sector. Under Sir John's leadership, and in partnership with the Public Accounts Committee, they have consistently done so. One of the reasons that Sir John has been successful is that he has been demonstrably independent of the Executive—a point made by a number of right hon. and hon. Members. He has done that in various ways. He has been straightforward in his reports, and he has not pulled his punches. In November, for example, he released e-mails demonstrating that senior HMRC staff were aware of the full child benefit database being provided to the NAO, and that the debacle could not be blamed entirely on one low-level official. That demonstrated, once again, Sir John's independence. There are various matters in respect of independence that need to be raised in the context of the motion. On the first, I hope the House will forgive me for making a controversial point. The economics editor of The Sunday Telegraph, Liam Halligan, wrote at the weekend that it remains his view that Sir John"““has been hounded out of office—after a series of heavily spun leaks against him—by ministers tired of being held to account by Bourn and his auditing team.””" I would be grateful if the Exchequer Secretary could confirm in the course of her remarks that, as far as she is aware, no Government Minister, official or special adviser has briefed against Sir John. Another issue is the appointments process, which we have been debating for some time. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough, the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, and the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright), the Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, I have been reading the Official Report of the last time the matter was debated in December 1987. As has been said, a number of Labour Members, including their Front Bencher, the Treasurer of Her Majesty's Household, the right hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, East and Wallsend (Mr. Brown), who no doubt follows these matters closely and is present today, suggested at that time that Parliament might have a greater role in the appointments process to ensure independence from the Executive. Indeed, the right hon. Gentleman went on to state:"““The Labour party intends to give effect to this principle when in government””—[Official Report, 16 December 1987; Vol. 124, c. 1201.]" There has been on the Government's part no unseemly haste to do so but, as we have heard, John Tiner is reviewing the corporate governance of the NAO and we may soon have proposals on these matters. Indeed, we have heard proposals from the Minister for the Cabinet Office. There seems to be a mood on both sides of the House for greater transparency and parliamentary involvement in public appointments. We await Mr. Tiner's proposals with interest and look forward to examining the proposals from the Minister for the Cabinet Office. Contrary to what the Prime Minister said, we have just checked with the Library and details are not yet available there. In fairness, we should acknowledge that under the current arrangements for the appointment of the CAG the Chairman of the PAC has a key role in the appointment, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough. No one doubts his independence from the Executive, or generally. The fact that an Opposition Member has an influential role in the appointment is important, as the Father of the House observed, allowing greater parliamentary involvement. We must ensure that the governing party, whichever party it may be, does not have too much control through the use of its Whips. There is clearly a balance to be struck, as the Chairman of the PAC recognised.