Serious Crime Bill [HL]

My Lords, I will not rehearse all the arguments that have been made ad infinitum in this House about whether intercept material should be used as evidence in court. However, given the statements of the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, and the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, I do not think that those of us who do not think as they do should allow the record to remain as it would if we did not speak. I welcome the setting up of a privy counsellors’ committee to look at this issue. People like me, who think that the disadvantages and damage to national security and our intelligence and security agencies of allowing intercept material to be used in court would be enormous and would outweigh any benefits, have nothing to fear from a committee of privy counsellors looking at the matter. I, too, think that they will come to the right conclusion, although obviously I think that that conclusion will be different from that of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas. I have more faith in their nerve than he seems to have. I do not think that they will be panicked. They will be presented with evidence that those of us who have been in positions to know this area well at first hand are sure will make the facts very clear.