Offender Management Bill

My Lords, I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, that we do not think that it will be cheap either. These reforms are not about doing that which is cheap but about doing that which is effective. There is a great difference between cost efficiency and cost effectiveness. I assure the House that in taking these proposals forward we intend to concentrate on cost effectiveness. This has been a very enlightening debate, but even at this last stage there may be confusion about the issues that we need to take forward. I very much commend what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, and my noble friend Lord Warner because they speak of the necessity for change. All those in this House have concentrated on the need to provide a better service for victims and a better service for offenders. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, does not include me among those who have castigated the Probation Service; I honestly believe that I have never, ever done so. It would be naive not to accept that we need to change, and change quite significantly. We are contemplating that change in a moderate, proportionate and reasoned way. We seek to give assurances that there will be no precipitous change to the way in which we take this forward. It is important for us to look at what is already being done by those who are progressive and who are at the height of their practice. They are including the third sector, they are working with the private sector and they are delivering that which we would aspire for them to achieve. I listened with very great care to everything that was said by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, who has contributed so comprehensively to every single aspect of the Bill. I listened with care to whether he was going to say anything that would support his amendment. I do not believe that he did, but it gave him an opportunity to explore his concerns, and I accept that. The amendment is about delaying the Bill for a set period. I really think this is the time for us to go on. The noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, said that this was about allowing the Bill to splutter into life. That is a little ungenerous of her; I have come to expect a little more, but I understand the seduction of the last flush of comments that might actually hit a headline or two. I assure her that this is not about spluttering into life; it is about making a solid foundation for a change that we all aspire to achieve. That solid foundation is worth fighting for, because it is inclusive. We know that if we are going to make the changes that we as a community need to make to the figures on recidivism and reoffending and to be better able to address prevention and crime reduction, we are going to have to do it together—in the public sector, the private sector and the not-for-profit sector— because it will take all of us. That is what the Bill is about. I hope that I have been able to give a little reassurance to the House, to the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, and to the noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, who raised the issue of how the voluntary sector was going to be included and what this will all cost. We are very conscious of the cost, but we are also very conscious of the cost of not doing this, the cost of not going forward and the cost of staying where we are. That price is a little too high for us to pay. We have spent a huge amount of time and effort—rightly—scrutinising every single aspect of the Bill but, having done so, we should have the confidence to say, ““Our job has been well done; let’s get on with it, and let’s let the Probation Service do that which we know it does best, which is working with others””. Some described the Probation Service before this Government came into being as the Cinderella. We have tried to make sure that it has the training, resources and facilities to allow Cinderella to go to the ball. We think that she is finally dressed; we rather like her and we hope that she will do well.