Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (Northern Ireland Political Parties) Order 2007

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Bew, on his maiden speech and welcome him to the House. His views are a welcome addition to the range of views that we hear in this House from Northern Ireland. I only wish that the range were wider. I do not know why the SDLP does not come here; I do not know why Sinn Fein does not come here. This House is a platform and a vehicle, and the place is available. The wider the opinion, the better it is. We always end up with these almost one-sided debates, although one gets a flavour of the different shades of unionist views. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, joins many practising professors in this place. They are gainfully employed. Everyone thinks that everybody in this place is retired. I have to tell my friends outside, ““You’re kidding. They’re out working and then they cut you to pieces at Question Time in the afternoon””. That is why Ministers in this House are under greater scrutiny than Ministers in the other House. That is my honest opinion after six years here as a Minister. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, is very welcome. The noble Lord rightly said that no one can accuse me of sugar-coating the order. I have made no attempt whatever to hide exactly what we are doing, nor do I seek to do so. This is not a situation with which mainland political parties would be content in the long term, but one cannot divorce oneself from the fact that our relations with the Republic are different from those with other member states of the European Union, for example, on a range of issues. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, spoke about a hung Parliament and the other place being perhaps in the grip of a small group. I was in the other place from 1974 to 1979, towards the end of which we had a minority Labour Government. We worked very closely with our then colleagues in the Ulster Unionist Party to survive for a while. It would be unfair to say that we were held to ransom, but they cut a deal, saw their opportunities and who could blame them? I digress, but, as I have said, I have made no attempt to sugar-coat the order. I shall do my best to answer the specific questions, all of which were quite legitimate. The noble Lord, Lord Laird, asked about loans. There will be provisions for loans. They will be complicated. Frankly, we could not have done it in the order. We have changed the rules and we have changed the legislation on loans anyway. The provisions of the Electoral Administration Act 2006, which relate to the regulation of loans, have yet to be commenced for Northern Ireland, although they have already commenced for Great Britain. We hope to commence them later this year. We do not have to legislate; it is a question of getting a commencement order up and running. The legislation has been made. Northern Ireland was included, but the legislation did not commence there at the same time as in Great Britain. I go back to what I said earlier about the Neill committee, whose work gave rise to the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000—a very important piece of legislation, of which the Government can be rightly proud. The Neill committee, among other things, recommended that because of the special role of Ireland in Northern Ireland’s political life as set out in the Belfast agreement, it would not be right to ban contributions from there. I shall go no further than that. There was another view of that issue. The noble Lord, Lord Glentoran, mentioned the Conservative Party organising in Northern Ireland. It is not for me to offer advice to the Conservative Party, but I think that it would be better off trying to organise in places such as Ealing Southall than bothering with Northern Ireland at present. I know that I should not have said that, but I could not resist it, because of the way in which the noble Lord raised the matter. However, the noble Lord made the fair point about the money flow. When the money flows into Northern Ireland from Irish recipients, it stays there. Therefore, for example, the Conservative Party of Northern Ireland, on a separate register, cannot donate to the Conservative Party of Great Britain—likewise the Labour Party and other parties. The money stays there. As a UK citizen on the electoral register, I can donate to parties in Northern Ireland. People in England, Scotland and Wales can donate to political parties in Northern Ireland. The question that arises is whether people resident in Northern Ireland can donate to political parties in the Republic, which is in effect a foreign country. It is not my job to answer that, because it is a matter exclusively for the Republic of Ireland’s own legislative effect. I understand that such parties could donate to Irish parties if they had an office on the island of Ireland from which one or more of their principal activities are directed. I remember making this point when we discussed the Bill. But that is a matter for Irish legislation, as the regulation of donations to parties in the UK, including Northern Ireland, is a matter for UK legislation. We have discussed that with Ireland—I made that clear in my opening speech—but we differ in aspects of the proposed law. I fully accept that.