Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

My Lords, I should point out to the noble Lord that we in the TUC have been campaigning for this Bill for years. It just happens to be a fact of life that we were largely talking about something different. How the relationships between prison governors, prison staff and prisoners should be handled in this context is rather different from the manslaughter liabilities of an employer when someone falls off the top of a building. It is much more complicated. I abstained last time, and I gave my reasons. The trio or perhaps now the quartet of ping-pong sessions back and forth has been quite productive, because it has shed light on some of these issues. Given that, rather than making this a yes or no proposition, I say that this is now a matter of interpretation and a consideration of how we move on from here. In conclusion, therefore, I am not asking my noble friend to respond to my broad remarks about the ideas that talks are about to start. However, the discussion I had with the Prison Officers Association is one I would like him to respond to. How are these people to become involved? The genie is now out of the bottle and there is no going back. The Bill is quite radical, and, wearing my TUC hat, I must say that there can be no question of this Bill falling. In the light of the conversations that have taken place, I consider that the Bill should pass, not least because rejection now would somehow not be proportionate to all the considerations that have already taken place. The process is now going forward and I hope that my Labour colleagues who like me abstained last time or voted against will now vote on the basis that I have outlined—for the recommendation made by the Leader of the House.