Official Secrets Act 1989 (Prescription) (Amendment) Order 2007

I thank the noble Lords, Lord De Mauley and Lord Thomas of Gresford, for their kind words and for congratulating me rather than commiserating with me on standing here today. The speech made by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, was not too long; it was extremely interesting and provided a context that should always be there when discussing matters such as this. I shall attempt to answer some of the questions that he asked, but I am grateful to him for saying that today he will not oppose this order, although he will be watching very carefully in future to ensure that what he hopes will not happen does not in fact happen. The points that he made were very well made. The noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, asked what information would not be disclosed. On the nuclear side, it is commercially sensitive information about stocks of used uranium and plutonium. On the IPCC side, the Official Secrets Act makes it an offence to make an unauthorised disclosure of information in various general categories, which are information that damages security and intelligence, defence or international relations or information that impedes the prevention or detection of a crime. These are generalised categories that apply to disclosures that have damaging consequences and are unauthorised. However, this is not a blanket ban on disclosure as decisions on what to disclose can be challenged in court, which is an important protection. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, asked why an extension was being made to the IPCC now. In the Stockwell investigation, there was an unauthorised leak of information from the IPCC, which led to a review of security that caused the IPCC to request the change. It was not originally included because the previous body, the Police Complaints Authority, had a specific duty in the Police Act. It was decided to make the complaints system more open and therefore not to include its effects. The leak of information from the Stockwell inquiry caused this request for a change. It was not considered appropriate to leak a specific offence, as with the previous authority. That is not absolutely clear, and I should like to write to the noble Lord with a fuller answer on that. The question of the public interest defence, which the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, raised and discussed, was debated by Parliament at some length during the passage of the Bill in 1989. A public interest defence would allow a damaging disclosure to take place and then, when the damage was past recall, there would be an argument about whether the disclosure was justified. Members or former members of the security services cannot be expected to make a fully informed decision of the damage that an unauthorised disclosure may do. There is no need for a public interest defence, as a Crown servant can seek authorisation from his or her organisation for any proposed disclosure. Members of the security and intelligence service have access to the independent staff counsellor, who can report on any matter to the relevant Secretary of State or directly to the Prime Minister and can therefore deal with any allegations of impropriety within the services. For members of the security services, the OSA imposes a blanket ban but, for the reasons above, a public interest defence is not appropriate for them. For those governed by this order, disclosure is an offence only if it is damaging in some way and it is not in the public interest to disclose information that damages defence, international relations or impedes the investigation or prosecution of a crime. If a whistle-blower still has concerns, he can ask for authorisation to disclose and challenge any refusal in court. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas, also asked what secrets are to be maintained. The NDA is committed to openness and transparency in its activities and is not seeking to hide matters, but there are security matters in protecting sites from terrorists. Finally, I have a fairly long brief on extending the Official Secrets Act to the IPCC, headed ““additional briefing””. It is three pages long and I shall not read it out, but the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, may be interested to read it so I shall pass it to him and send a copy to the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley. On Question, Motion agreed to.