Offender Management Bill

My Lords, I have thought about this and have concluded thus. If ever I am in need of trade union representation in future, in this incarnation or another, I am jolly sure that I will seek out my noble friend Lady Gibson, because she has given a tour de force this evening. It is apparent to me that I have lacked that trade union expertise behind me in my previous jobs. I cannot fault the noble Baroness for her persistence, for the quality of her argument and for her determination on thispoint. I thought that I had offered a modicum of clarification in Committee, but it is clear that Imay have been lacking in that department. I shall endeavour to do my best this evening and to demonstrate that the Government do indeed listen to arguments. In our previous debate I thought thatI had made it clear that we were committed to continuing the current arrangements for national collective pay bargaining, but I fully recognise that my noble friend Lady Gibson and Members on all sides of your Lordships’ House remain concerned about what might happen in the future, which is why they tabled the amendment. Given the continuing concern about this, I am prepared to consider whether we can offer further reassurance. However, the amendment is not the best way in which to deal with the matter, not least because it is technically deficient; the change proposed is not consistent with paragraph 8. I understand the spirit in which it has been tabled. I would like to reflect further. I have heard the voices around your Lordships’ House. I noted in particular that my noble friend Lady Gibson said that neither she, nor for that matter the staff involved, are opposed to flexibilities. That is a very sensible position to adopt, because it is clearly not a million miles away from the Government’s position. If she will at least give the Government the opportunity to give the matter some further thought, we can demonstrate this evening that we have made some progress on this issue.