Pensions Bill

moved Amendment No. 89: 89: Schedule 6, page 58, line 14, after ““a”” insert ““direct or indirect”” The noble Baroness said: I will also speak to Amendment No. 91. We return to the conflict of interest provisions in paragraph 2 of Schedule 6 and their relationship to the declaration of interest provisions in paragraph 13. Amendment No. 89 would insert the words ““direct or indirect”” into the definition of a conflict of interest in paragraph 2(6). At present, the definition includes ““financial or other”” interests. When the Minister in another place explained this, he said that ““or other”” was designed to catch a member of a person’s family running a company that could be affected by the introduction of personal accounts. I put it to the Minister that that is not an interest of the person at all—it is not an ““other”” interest—it is the interest of someone else, and so the requirement that a person appointed as a chairman or non-executive does not have a conflict of interest would not be met. I can readily understand that a relationship with another person could be an ““other”” interest, but not the fact that that other person had some business interest in personal accounts. If the Minister is going to claim that the relationship is the ““other”” interest, does its existence mean that all the financial interests of that person get drawn in? The drafting is vague because, if it does refer to relationships, it is unclear where they begin and end. Do siblings count orjust spouses? What about infant or adult children? What about parents and grandparents? What about co-habitees? I contrast that with the provisions in paragraph 13, which deals with declarations of interest. In that paragraph, the phrase ““direct or indirect”” is used in relation to the relevant interest, which is why I have drafted it into Amendment No 89. Paragraph 13 also imports the Companies Act definitions of persons connected with a director, which seem to give some certainty about the relationships that are important. I hope that the Minister will reflect on the ambiguity of paragraph 2 and on AmendmentNo. 91, which requires that if there has been a declaration of interest under paragraph 13, it should be notified to the Secretary of State. There is a difference between a conflict of interest and a declaration of interest, but I think that it is a question of degree rather than real difference. At some point along a spectrum, a declaration of interest will also be a conflict of interest. My amendment is designedto ensure that the Secretary of State, who byparagraph 2(2) has to keep the issue of conflicts of interest under review, has the relevant information. There does not appear to be any other way for the Secretary of State to find out about declarations of interest. I beg to move.