Pensions Bill

It will not stop me, as the noble Baroness says. My noble friend is correct. One can relate Amendment No. 34 to the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness. For very much the same reasons that the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, has put forward, I do not support it because it would be wrong to vary the age of retirement. I am in favour of increasing the retirement age. In an ideal world, I would like a flexible age of retirement between 60 and 70, which is exactly what I proposed 20 years ago. It would be extraordinarily difficult to vary the age of retirement. Rather than having an inflexible league table of professions and jobs, it would be much better to concentrate on providing opportunities for older workers. That is the challenge, which I am not sure the Government or any of the commentators have yet taken on board. If we are to have a retirement age of 68, there has to be assurance and reasonable hope that people will have the opportunity of sensible work at that age. One does not want people retiring at 60 and having a twilight of eight years working in jobs which are second-rate as far as they are concerned. That is the challenge for the Government. I am not sure that the implications of that challenge have yet been addressed or worked out. We have to provide opportunities. When one looks at public appointments, I wonder how many public appointments are made of people over the age of 65. How many appointments are made in the Department for Work and Pensions of those over the age of 65? I suspect that it is not many. If there is to be a revolution in the increase of pension age, we must think constructively about the issues. I think we are mad in this country. Of course it is easy for me to say, but we put far too high a premium on younger people and not enough on experience. Not all experience counts—the noble Lord, Lord Oakeshott, has a lot of experience but you would not appoint him to anything—but in many cases it does count. If I am to be serious, this issue has to be addressed. The Government have to look at the work opportunities available to older people and come up with constructive ways forward, not only in training but also in opportunities to work. Unless we do that, we will not meet the challenge set out by the noble Baroness in her amendment.