Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill

My Lords, we, from this side of the House, support the powerful case made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. We went into the Lobby with him on the previous occasion, and we would join him again if he were to call for a Division. I have no problem with the implication of the noble Lord, Lord Lea, that the Bill is much wider than simply the two aspects—police cells and prison cells—we are talking about. If so, why exclude these two very important areas from the Bill? If the Government were to include them, the Bill could become an Act and there is no problem. It is important to remember what the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, rightly said a little while ago; that the original amendment to bring deaths in police custody and prison custody within the ambit of the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Bill received very strong backing when it was before your Lordships’ House: it had a substantial majority. Today’s debate on the Commons amendment does not help to rectify the anomaly that many noble Lords pointed out last time. I do not underestimate in any way the work of the Prison Ombudsman, but this matter is far too important simply to be left to investigation. We would like to ensure that no one is excluded from the provision of this legislation. I say straight away—and a number of people have complimented the noble Baroness on her performance on other Bills—that she is a listening Minister. I hope that she will listen very carefully to the arguments advanced and that there will be a way to move forward on this issue. We cannot deny that there is a slight movement in our discussions with the Minister on the Government’s part, but it is not sufficient to allay our fears about lack of action on deaths in a custodial situation. We need to bring to task those who fail in their duty of care when persons are placed in police or prison cells. I do not see why the Government should be worried. It would not of course mean that all or most deaths in custody would result in prosecution for corporate manslaughter, as pointed out by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. That would apply only when, exceptionally, there had been a gross breach of the relevant duty of care. In those circumstancesa prosecution for corporate manslaughter should enable the courts to hold that a serious management failure had occurred resulting in an individual’s death. I note that it is no longer the Government’s case that deaths in custody should be exempted from the scope of the Bill. I hope that is the case because I can well understand that there is a need for discussions with the Prison Service, as the Minister mentioned earlier, and the police. I do not dispute that. That is right and how it should happen. Let me advance some of the arguments mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Dear, about the police. I have looked at the response from ACPO, the Association of Chief Police Officers. It argues that mechanisms are already established to ensure that all such incidents are robustly and independently investigated. However, the IPCC, the Independent Police Complaints Commission, the one body with an independent oversight on policing matters said on the Government’s draft Bill for reform: "““The consultation paper suggests that the reason for not applying corporate manslaughter to public functions is that this would conflict with existing accountability mechanisms … In fact, it would complement them. All deaths following police contact have to be referred to the IPCC, and some of these will be independently investigated. If the evidence from such an investigation showed the most appropriate way forward was a corporate manslaughter prosecution, it would cause serious public concerns about the effectiveness of public accountability if this was not an option””." The commission pointed out that at present in a case of serious systematic failure resulting in death, "““there could be a disproportionality whereby a death occurs and the only sanctions available are minor disciplinary sanctions against individual officers””." This is wholly unsatisfactory, and the Commons amendment goes nowhere near the original amendment to rectify it. I am aware that the Ministry of Justice is in consultation with the governors of prison establishments on this subject and requires more time to conclude that discussion. That is unacceptable. There are still grieving parents, who have no answers to the question of how many vulnerable youngsters have died. I have secured a number of debates in your Lordships’ House on deaths in custody, but I have never succeeded in getting the Home Office to set up an independent inquiry. We cannot allow this situation to continue for the next year or two. A private company running a business could be liable to a charge of corporate manslaughter, but a public service charged with the care of particularly vulnerable people behind locked doors and high walls would not. That cannot be right. Indeed, it is indefensible; because of the particularly vulnerable position of prisoners, we should take special care to protect their lives. Even more indefensibly, a private company running a prison would not be liable to prosecution for corporate manslaughter, although a private company running any other kind of business would be liable to such a charge. Let me conclude by repeating what the House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee and the Work and Pensions Select Committee concluded in their joint report on the Bill: "““there is no principled justification for excluding deaths in prisons or police custody from the ambit of the offence ... where deaths in prisons and police custody occur, they should be ""properly investigated and the relevant bodies held accountable before the courts where appropriate for an offence of corporate manslaughter””." The Government must give way, and must do so this time by sending our concerns back to the Commons one more time so they are taken into account.