Legal Services Bill [HL]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Borrie, has missed one of the key points in this debate: the whole issue of access to justice. That was why Sir David Clementi said that the Legal Services Board should have a wider remit in the public interest than just the oversight of the practitioners in the legal services sector. He also said—I felt persuasively—that to have a contribution from other than just the regulated would enable the regulator to demonstrate its independence from those it was regulating. If all its money came from the professions over which it had oversight, then issues such as access to justice and independence would not be seen as having the wider remit that the public would want. In demonstrating my support for the words of my noble friend Lord Kingsland, and also finding myself in complete agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Maclennan of Rogart, I should also add that I am becoming increasingly concerned about the cost. When we last debated the Bill, on the second day of Report, we had just seen an extract from a report by Frances Gibb in the Times that the costs were escalating to a degree that none of us had really contemplated. In the Joint Select Committee, the estimate of costs was said to be, if I recall correctly, ““at best speculative””. But I do not think that any of us on the Joint Select Committee contemplated that they would double before the final figures were known. It might be helpful if the Minister could bring us up to date in particular on the start-up costs but also on the running costs. It is a little while since we saw that report. The Minister at least indicated that she shared our concerns about the costs suddenly running away from us in a way that would impinge on access to justice if the professions had to bear all those costs. Who is going to pay? The answer is that the consumer of legal services ultimately will pay through increased charges. I am very worried indeed about whether we have yet seen the final picture. When we last debated these issues, the noble Baroness said that she was taking a close look not only at the start-up costs but at the running costs as well. Now that we have this debate and a number like it this evening, it might be helpful if she could bring us up to date with where we are on the issue of costs so far as the Government are concerned. Finally, experience tells me that written in bold capital letters on the Minister’s brief from the Treasury will be the word, ““Resist””. I have come to have considerable respect for the Minister and I know that she would ignore any such mandate if she felt that there was a case to be argued. I do not know whether she will let us in on what arguments may be going on with the Treasury behind the scenes, but my noble friend Lord Kingsland has made a very strong point in moving this amendment. I hope, therefore, that the Minister will not reject it out of hand.