Legal Services Bill [HL]

My Lords, I observe for the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lyell, that Peers are now allowed to serve on juries, which is the other change that has taken place. I cannot wait to do jury service. I have thought carefully about this issue; more importantly, we have consulted widely on it. We do not say that members of the legal profession cannot serve on the board at all because we expect a mixed membership constituted of appropriately qualified professionals and lay people appointed by the Secretary of State, the Lord Chancellor, after consultation with the chairman of the board. We will look for the best possible mix of skills. Consumer confidence is important in this context, as are effective regulation and professional expertise. For those reasons, we have provided that the board must be comprised of such a mix, with the majority given to lay members. We have talked about the case of someone who has been qualified in the legal profession for many years but who had not practised for some time. None the less, they would have experience and an understanding of legal matters. The difficulty lies in trying to define where such knowledge begins and ends: when is someone a lay person or not a lay person? I am a lay person because I do not have any legal qualifications. That is simple and straightforward. There are people who are qualified and legally practising, and they too can serve on the board. Questions arise with those who have not practised for five years, 10 years, 20 years and so on. The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, has put down a 10-year marker on it, and I understand that from his point of view the period is quite reasonable. However, when my officials talked to representatives from consumer organisations, they were very clear about this, and I too want to make the position clear. They felt it was important for ““lay”” to mean ““lay”” in this context. While those with legal training and experience are perfectly able to serve on the board, they should not take the places of lay members. They have argued that we could end up with the whole board being made up of those who at some point had been practising lawyers or were technically qualified as legal professionals. They felt that that would go against the spirit of what we are trying to do here. I shall quote the National Consumer Council in this regard: "““It is essential that all of the Legal Services Board chairs are demonstrably independent of vested interests””." In the council’s view it is particularly important that the first chair should be lay so that the new organisation can get off to the best possible start in terms of the consumer focus. The council goes on to say: "““We do not think it is helpful to debate an amount of years when someone who is qualified as a lawyer but is no longer practising can be considered a lay person. This approach would inevitably lead to arbitrary decisions since some individuals might be able to demonstrate an independent outlook within a relatively short period of time, while others might never be able to do so””." I do not say that that is my view, but I give this as an example of the strength of feeling among other interest groups. On the basis that members of the legal profession can serve on the board, that beyond the first chair they can become chairmen of the organisation and that they will be able to contribute positively, we think that there is a good pool of talent of those with experience in other fields to bring to the board and that we are not discriminating in any way against those who are legally qualified. Rather, the board should comprise a broad mix, and to change the definition would mean that it would be possible to end up with no mixture, but a board comprised only of members who are legally qualified. Therefore I am going to resist the amendment, but on the basis that I have consulted widely on it and thought about it with care. On reflection, the balance is about right.