Serious Crime Bill [HL]

I congratulate the Minister on giving us the fullest explanation that I have ever heard on this topic. We are obviously moving forward. I hope that she will convey the contents of her speech, the statistics and so on, to the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions in the hope that they may change the attitude that they have taken. Perhaps the noble Baroness will convey it also to the Commissioner for the Metropolitan Police and all the other people who, one presumes, know a little about the criminal justice system, so that they too will realise the error of their ways—she has most certainly told us the error of our ways tonight. The Minister must appreciate that, if the technology is improving, that must mean that you can hear it better. One of the problems of intercept evidence through bugs is that we only half hear what is going on and it is not easy to hear. With the new technology, what is being said must be as clear as a bell. I know that a 12-month terrorist trial has just finished in the Old Bailey. It is all being held in camera; I do not know what it was about. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, has gone to California to take a well earned rest. I do not know what that case was about but, assuming there was a piece of intercept evidence which at the beginning had indicated in absolutely unequivocal terms that the defendants had admitted what they were charged with, under the policy of the noble Baroness that would not have been produced in court. They would not have pleaded guilty and we have had a 12-month trial. So from the point of view of resources and justice it is essential that such material is released. It is not just a question of the prosecution always benefiting. If there is nothing in the intercept evidence or if there are indications that the defendant is innocent, that evidence should be released to the defence. But the defence is not allowed to know that. A completely innocent conversation may take place in intercept evidence which supports the defence, but it will not be released. I just do not understand where the Government are coming from.