Legal Services Bill [HL]

The odd thing about this debate is that I agree with much of what has been said, and I do not want to have a chilling effect. I am concerned to ensure that we allow only proper and appropriate organisations to be alternative business structures. I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, says about those who are galloping in that direction, and we will need to be clear about that. I agree, too, with the eloquent words of the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, in our discussion on the last occasion and, in part, in what he said today about rural issues, and with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. I accept what was said last time by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf. Indeed, he and I have discussed his concerns, which I am sure the Committee would expect me to do. I accept, too, the observations made by the noble and learned Baroness. I am not a lawyer, but I now have an honorary law degree given to me by the noble Lord, Lord Rix, so that is something. However, there is very little between us. What we are arguing about is how best to express any concerns within the regulatory functions contained in the Bill. I have received a letter from Antony Townsend, chief executive of the Solicitors Regulation Authority, stating that, "““the amendment is worthy of debate, but we would be concerned at one of the statutory regulatory objectives appearing to hold dominance over the others … Access to justice is important and we would want to reflect that in a licensing scheme, but not in priority to other important regulatory objectives””." I raise this only because it is important thatother voices are heard in the debate. I am sure thatMr Townsend would be more than happy to talk to noble Lords further about his concerns. We need to remind ourselves first that we do make access to justice a critical feature of the regulatory framework. There is no difference between us onthat. The negotiation concerns whether it should dominate over other factors. The difficulties, which I have sought to outline, are in making sure that there are no unintended consequences that might prevent the proposals from working as effectively as they might. I have mentioned before that the arrival of an alternative business structure would enable higher-quality and possibly less expensive legal services to be provided, but for various reasons a small element of what had been available before would have to be provided by the next village or town. If you have access to justice as the overriding feature, that structure might not come into being. This could be detrimental to a huge number of people when what was being proposed to tackle the issue for the remaining few people was quite satisfactory. We have to be careful that we do not accidentally create difficulties, which I think is what the Solicitors Regulation Authority is concerned about. We have made it clear that you can put conditions on allowing an alternative business structure to come into being. Those conditions could and would deal with some of the issues about which noble Lords are quite rightly concerned. For example, a firm of solicitors may be required to provide the kind of specialist services in a rural community that would be lost if they were allowed to disappear. It is quite possible for the licensing authority to be very clear and say, ““Yes, you can have an alternative business structure but you must continue to provide these services””, either because it is a straightforward access to justice issue or because it is a part of its overview of how best to provide services more generally. I do not disagree that we have to be careful and mindful to ensure that—in rural communities especially, but not exclusively so—these structures come into being properly. It is a fundamental principle that we provide opportunities for the legal world to expand, develop and grow, thereby providing opportunities for those who consume such services to obtain high-quality services—perhaps better services in some cases and services that were not available before in others. Access to justice is a very important factor within that. There is absolutely nothing between us. As I have said, I endorse all the comments that have been made about that. My difficulty is that there may be unintended problems if we say access to justice is the overarching objective. Between now and Report stage, perhaps the Solicitors Regulation Authority will raise its concerns with other noble Lords. It is the only difference between us, but it is a difference. As always, I shall reflect on what has been said, with an understanding that there is no difference between us in what we are trying to achieve but with the proviso that it should not have the consequences that have been raised in Committee today and on previous occasions. I am not accepting the amendment but I am very mindful that in making the system work we must ensure that it does not have the consequences that noble Lords fear.