Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill [HL]

My Lords, I add my expression of appreciation to my noble friend for all the care that she has taken to reconcile the variety of reasonable and proper requirements that the Government have sought to meet in this legislation. She has proceeded with great sensitivity, and the amendments are thoroughly constructive and are to be welcomed. Amendments Nos. 88 and 89 would allow the Secretary of State to introduce a system of discretionary immunity from seizure, as opposed to the system of automatic immunity that the museums and galleries originally asked for, and which was provided for in the Bill until these amendments were tabled. The Secretary of State could require institutions to publish in advance a list of objects that they proposed to borrow from abroad to exhibit in this country. That would bring us into line with legislation and practice in numerous other jurisdictions, including Switzerland, where most recently anti-seizure legislation was enacted. The benefits would be that a discretionary system would allow someone to make an objection, in advance of the exhibition, about the inclusion of an item that was considered inappropriate to be exhibited because of dubiety concerning its legal and ethical status. To that extent, it makes it less likely that exhibitions in this country would be tainted by the presence of objects whose provenance and ownership was unsound. It would perhaps enable a claimant to identify the whereabouts of an object that had been lost sight of and the location of which the claimant no longer knew. On the other side of the fence, it would alert a lending institution to the risk that an action might be brought to make a claim to such property, and to that extent it may discourage lenders from lending. I cannot see that the provision would improve the prospect of a claimant achieving satisfaction in the UK courts, unless of course the claimant refrained from raising an objection when the list was published. But there is a wider moral point—it was powerfully expressed by my noble friend Lord Janner, as always, and by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick—that it is simply indecent that stolen art should be paraded in exhibitions around the world. The objection to advertising an intention to borrow particular cultural objects and to particularise them in a list was made by museums and galleries that were worried about the administrative complexity and the cost of the procedure. Would there be any significant increase in complexity and cost for museums and galleries if they were practising due diligence with the thoroughness that the Government already specify in guidance? I think not. I would go further and say that the publication of a list of cultural objects that they are minded to borrow, with the invitation for people to comment, should be seen as an aspect of due diligence and as an enhancement of the process. It would be useful if a borrowing institution that perhaps is otherwise not very well placed—whether due to a lack of resources or a lack of availability of relevant documentation—to conduct the research that due diligence requires, and thereby is perhaps excessively reliant on the information provided by the lending institution, had available to it new sources of information that arose because of the consultation process. Trustees and staff of museums and galleries are, almost by definition, civilised people, but it is not their duty solely to promote appreciation of art; they ought to be good citizens and they should be anxious to adopt procedures that guarantee that they will not breach propriety and they should be willing to support their fellow citizens in having access to justice. That is the spirit in which Sir Nicholas Serota and the committee that he chairs under the auspices of the National Museum Directors’ Conference has proceeded under several years past—and that should be recognised. So I hope that museums and galleries will accept these amendments without demur. I have one question for the Minister about Amendment No. 89, which is permissive only. It states: "““The Secretary of State may make regulations requiring a museum or gallery to provide … specified information about an object””." May we take it that it is the intention of the Secretary of State and of the other UK authorities to introduce such regulations and is my noble friend able to give the House any inkling of what they might provide? I ask that particularly in relation to timescale. How far in advance will museums and galleries have to publish the details of their intended borrowing? It is generally agreed that the provision in Switzerland that 30 days’ notice should be given is, in practice, too short; it does not allow people who are likely to be working across international frontiers to have the time they need to investigate the status of an object, take the advice that they require and then to register their objections. On the other hand, we should not prolong that process beyond what is genuinely reasonably necessary, because lead times for the organising of great international exhibitions are formidably long and, for entirely understandable reasons, agreements on the loan of some items are often reached at a late stage. I have noted that my noble friend said that the department would consult museums and galleries on this matter. Will the department consider also publishing the regulations in draft, so that there can be wider consideration of them before they are enacted? Amendment No. 90 would introduce a new clause that would elaborate on the face of the Bill the Government’s requirements in respect of due diligence. I suspect that the amendment is technically unnecessary, but it is helpful that the language of the legislation should be made plainer and the policy clearer to those who are not specialists in this field. It is right that the Government should be required not just to consider the declared procedures of an institution in carrying out due diligence to establish provenance and ownership, but they should also ensure that those procedures are more than notional. Therefore, it is right that the Secretary of State should be required to satisfy herself as to their compliance with the best practice guidelines that she publishes. Will the Minister say something about how the department will monitor that compliance and will she clarify some elements in the current guidance, Combating Illicit Trade? At section 3, it is roundly stated: "““Museums should acquire and borrow items only if they are legally and ethically sound””." Can my noble friend either now or, perhaps more likely through one of her ministerial colleagues at the DCMS in due course, cast light on some illustrative cases? I understand that the Government’s position is that although objects that were wrongfully taken in the Nazi era may be protected in their present ownership by the expiry of limitation periods, they remain ethically unsound and should not be acquired or borrowed by public collections in this country. Is it similarly the Government’s view that objects that were forcibly expropriated without compensation, for example by the Bolsheviks, are protected in their present ownership by sovereign immunity, but also remain ethically unsound and should not be borrowed for exhibitions in this country? What is the Government’s view—