Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for supporting the thrust of what we are seeking to do, and I hope that I shall be able to reassure him. The financial thresholds will prevent a charging order or order for sale being made in relation to a debt falling under the threshold, our aim being to protect vulnerable debtors where the debt being pursued is disproportionately small. This is particularly important because the Bill introduces measures which will allow creditors to apply for charging orders in circumstances where the debtor is not in arrears with an instalment arrangement. We need to maintain a sense of fairness between creditor and debtor, and ensure that the vulnerable are not subject to over-zealous pursuit for relatively small debts. Recommended thresholds could be ignored and contradict the principle that we are seeking to establish. Our approach to financial thresholds is found elsewhere in the civil justice system, not least in the administrative order procedure. We hope that that will be the principle on which we operate. Guidance for the judiciary already exists and the proper place for recommendations is in judicial guidance rather than in legislation. I can confirm to the noble Lord that my officials are already in contact with representatives from the water industry, with a view to ensuring that they are fully involved in the consultation on the level at which the thresholds should be set and that their concerns are taken into account. They cannot cut people off—rightly so—but they are concerned that they should be able to act appropriately. In that context we shall be looking at how the debts add up. Those representatives want to act in a proportionate manner. I envisage a low threshold. At this stage, I cannot indicate what we shall set it at but I shall keep the noble Lord informed about that. I hope that he will participate in our consultation. It is worth remembering that under the Bill the thresholds for charging orders and orders for sale need not be set at the same level. It is possible to have a relatively low threshold for a charging order and a high one for an order for sale. Likewise, it is possible to set different thresholds for different creditor groups to enable the unique problems faced by certain industries to be taken into account. I referred to the water industry in that regard. Given that that is the basis on which we shall consult, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.