Welfare Reform Bill

We will have to agree to disagree on this. The hon. Lady is a vigorous and vibrant debater, and I leave it to outside groups to decide who is right. The advice that I have received from many of those who represent with great distinction the interests of those on incapacity benefit and the disability lobby says that there is enough ambiguity in the way in which the Bill is drafted for it to be useful for new clause 7 to be included, which is precisely why I am moving it. I thought that I had said this, but I will have to repeat it: those in the support group are under no mandatory obligation. They are volunteers. However, if those people make the decision to enter into the spirit of the regime that operates for those in the employment group, it is not clear that they will be free from sanctions and the sanction procedure. It is not good enough for the hon. Lady and her colleagues to say that there is a right of appeal. There is no doubt that an individual with a fluctuating condition who was a volunteer from a support group, even though he or she had no obligation to volunteer, could say, ““I’ve got good cause because I have bipolar disorder and had a really bad week, so I missed a lot of the work-focused interviews.”” New clause 7 would make it explicit that a person in such circumstances would not have to show good cause within five days—let us remember, there is a five-day period in which to show good cause, although the time for appeal under most benefits is a month—or make a case in an appeal. We are arguing for crystal-clear clarity. I do not hesitate for a minute in saying that I hope that the hon. Lady is right that, in practice, those who volunteer from the support group will never be sanctioned. The chances are that it is 99 per cent. certain that they will not be sanctioned. However, I do not want to see such people having to go through the rigmarole of having a nil sanction against them or going through an appeal.