Consumers, Estate Agents and Redress Bill [HL]

As on Second Reading, I declare a direct interest as chair of the current National Consumer Council. I shall say something about how the present arrangements operate and how we want to preserve them as far as possible in the expanding National Consumer Council. To that extent, I agree with what my noble friend Lord Williams said about strengthening the devolution provisions of the Bill. I ask Ministers to consider the wording of the Bill, perhaps, rather than to accept all the amendments. My noble friend Lord O’Neill implied that sometimes the DTI do not ““do”” devolution. That is because, by and large, most DTI functions, including the consumer function, are actually not devolved. Therefore, there are issues on which the National Consumer Council gives a GB, UK or even an EU position when it is clear that the territorial committees—or however we find the best way in which to describe them—give advice to the National Consumer Council. So Wales and Scotland, with regard to GB, UK or EU legislation, would give advice and information, as provided under Clause 1. The two consumer councils also deal with an awful lot of devolved powers, including the whole of the public services, which are almost wholly devolved in Scotland and to a large extent in Wales, and with Scottish law, which is an entirely separate system. Some markets, as the noble Baronesses, Lady O’Cathain and Lady Miller, said, are very different in Scotland and Wales from those in England. So there are areas in which the competence of the Scottish and Welsh councils is the most important issue. It is not simply an issue of advice and information to the national council; it is a matter of those councils having the responsibility for dealing with devolved issues, or issues that are primarily an issue for Scotland or Wales. I do not know what precise form of words would be best, although my noble friend Lord Williams has made a good fist of it in his amendment. But the Government and the Minister need to accept that there is a problem here with referring simply to ““advice and information”” to the national council, because it is more than that. Much of the Scottish council’s resources come from the Scottish Executive, because its task involves investigations and research into the Scottish public services and professions. The present form of words does not fully reflect that, so I ask the Minister to accept some of the arguments and to come back later with a form of words that reflect even more strongly the current devolutionary settlement within the pre-devolutionary structure of the NCC and take a way forward that recognises the constitutional position on devolved responsibilities as compared to reserved policy areas. The General Consumer Council for Northern Ireland is by and large responsible for its own area and I would not wish to interfere with that. The only matter dealt with in this Bill with regard to Northern Ireland is postal services, on which the Bill provides for some rationalisation at a later stage. Will the Minister indicate to the Committee that the Government recognise some of these arguments and that we will come back to this issue with the addition of the form of words proposed by my noble friend Lord Williams or another form that delivers what we are after?