Big Lottery Fund (Prescribed Expenditure) Order 2006

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this debate and I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Verma, to her new role. I am sorry that this is such a restricted measure on which to make her debut, but I am very grateful for her assent. I am sure that we will discuss broader themes—after all, this has derived from the Act and the substantial debates that we had throughout last year when she was unable for obvious reasons to participate. I understand her limited contribution today and I know that she will be much more extensive in due course. I look forward to debating issues with her as much as I did with her predecessor, the noble Viscount, Lord Astor. As she knows, he fulfilled the role of Front-Bench spokesman for many years with great élan and often with great penetration in his questions. I enjoyed debating issues with him. I cannot say that it is not a slight relief that I will not have his penetrative challenges to contend with in the immediate future, but I know that the noble Baroness will sustain the level which he set. The noble Lord, Lord Shutt, inevitably revisited old pastures, at which I am not surprised at all. We had extensive debates about the whole question of whether the Big Lottery would be excessively London-centric—that is the word he chose to use today. I sought to emphasise during the passage of the Bill, and I reiterate today, that the Big Lottery is under an obligation to have regard to the interests of England as a whole—not London, but the different parts of England and the relative population sizes, and the scope for reducing economic and social deprivation in the different parts. The noble Lord, Lord Shutt, is wise enough to recognise that there are parts of London which have social and economic deprivation as well. He will also know that within that framework is a clear recognition that there are parts of England, which he would define in terms of certain regions, which deserve and merit special attention. The Big Lottery is under an obligation to address those issues. I seek to give the reassurance which I sought to give during the debates last year, but I am not at all surprised that the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, stayed true to his last and re-emphasised these points, about which I know he cares a great deal. On the Charities Act, it can be only beneficial that it defines these things more clearly, thus helping to make clear the role of lottery funding. That is a gain with regard to the working of the lottery. I am not sure that the right reverend Prelate strayed too widely in his comments on the order. After all, this is the first order to be made under the new Act. It sets up the biggest lottery funding operation and therefore a great deal will come within its purview. Given that, the right reverend Prelate has every right to ask for an assurance that lottery funding will not discriminate against the Christian Church. Given the way in which the lottery is constructed and its obligations regarding fairness and recognition that it is there to serve the community, I cannot see how it could possibly behave adversely towards the Christian community. In many parts of the country the Christian Church is obviously the major force in the locality in many respects, so I can give the right reverend Prelate an assurance on that point. On church heritage, that is a different dimension on which we had some fairly substantial debates during the passage of the Bill, and I sought to give reassurances on that point. However, I am grateful to him for raising the issue again. We look forward to seeing the lottery board address the issues so dear to the heart of the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, not only in its perception of the nation as a whole, but also of the different countries and regions which make up the United Kingdom. By the same token, the board cannot fulfil its duties unless it is sensitive to the issues raised by the right reverend Prelate. We will no doubt return to these issues in due course and I look forward to wider debates on aspects of the lottery. But this evening I hope we all recognise that the order takes matters forward along the lines we eventually agreed on after much hard debate during the passage of the Bill earlier this year. This order gives effect to a crucial part of that legislation. On Question, Motion agreed to.